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The 'train of boxes' was used when attacking a point target such as a bridge. You should find the 465th attack sheet in the mission folder and see what it says.Not always and not in this case. The "train of boxes " was not the rule( the longer the train, the happier the FLAK ). In the "6 air front formation" the position of boxes could be the same in cruising and bombing. In the sheet to which my original question referred is clearly said "bombing formation".
Yes, of course. I told that only one PFF leaded the Group and aimed during the bombing run. The spares were inactive unless malfuctions or alternate targets needed their intervention.
This topic is very stimulating. But I'll try to focus again on the question that pushed me to start it.
To reorder my ideas I have partially modified the picture below.
View attachment 720471
1st problem : Plane in wind. In absence of wind the aircraft could theoretically fly with the nose pointing the target, but in presence of wind it had to contrast the drift which the wind would have impressed to it. So it had to fly with the nose upwind to keep its course straight to the target ( this was called "kill the drift" ).
2nd problem : Bombs in wind : at the moment of the release the bombs were taken by the wind and carried downwind ( to the right in the picture ). The Bombardier had to compensate this by flying a course on the left of the target ( COURSE OF PLANE ) and not over the target ( COLLISION COURSE ) to place the bombs on the ACTUAL TRAJECTORY which actually leaded them on the target. This compensation was called "sight for deflection".
So, while sight for "both range and deflection" meant fly on the pink course in the picture and hit the target, sight " only for range " meant fly on the blue course in the picture, avoiding to consider the influence of the wind on the bombs which would fall ( red trajectory in the picture ) right of the target.
Now, substitute the two planes in the picture with two boxes of 7 - 8 planes. In the specific case that I consider, the Box further upwind in the picture sighted for range and deflection, so it had high chances to hit the target. The other sighted only for range. Apart every feature of the bombs that could interfere with their fall and which may have dispersed them, the bombs of the second Box, by effect of the wind, had to impact on the right of the target.
My question is : what was the underlying logic in this ?
Even if they dispersed in many directions I don't think they fell upwind .... And in any case, if everything was so random, why then aim ?You're missing the 3rd problem - random dispersion of bombs laterally across track due to differences in aerodynamic performance. The diagram shows a nice neat condition where all bombs follow the same general path, A bomb dropped in any of the 3 aircraft positions shown in the diagram had an equal probability of hitting the actual target due to the dispersion mentioned.
Even if they dispersed in many directions I don't think they dropped upwind ....
Even if they dispersed in many directions I don't think they dropped upwind ....
Sorry I meant fell no dropped
From the moment they leave the aircraft the bombs are carried by the wind in the direction of the wind, so downwind from the point of release. They cannot be carried in the opposite direction ( upwind ). If you toss a handful of ping pong balls in a river, they might touch the water in a disperse manner but they will follow the stream, they will not go up the river . . .Depends what you mean by "upwind"....upwind from where? The drop point? The estimated impact point in still conditions? Relative to other bombs dropped at the same time?
From the moment they leave the aircraft the bombs are carried by the wind in the direction of the wind, so downwind from the point of release. They cannot be carried in the opposite direction ( upwind ). If you toss a handful of ping pong balls in a river, they might touch the water in a disperse manner but they will follow the stream, they will not go up the river . . .
But it will fall shorter of the target. And this was considered by the Bombardier, who entered the value of the wind in the bombsight before releasing.Firstly, a 500lb bomb is not a ping pong ball. Secondly, it all depends on the direction and speed of the wind. A bomb dropped at 120mph into a 10mph headwind will NOT get blown backwards. Period.
But it will fall shorter of the target. And this was considered by the Bombardier, who entered the value of the wind in the bombsight before releasing.
Sighting for deflection implies consider the crosswinds. The variables could be many but the bomb will always fall in wind direction ( downwind ). If the direction of the wind reverses, just like you said, the bomb will take the new direction of the wind and it will fall downwind in the new direction. As you can see in the picture from the " Bombardiers' Information file " the bomb will be deviated in the actual direction of wind. There's no physical law that can bring it on the opposite direction, towards the wind (upwind). Turbolence, updrafts and downdrafts could influence the fall of the bomb, which would land short, long, to the right or to the left of the target, but the cross - trail ( CT ) cannot be negative, that means, in the picture below, that the bomb will not fall to the right of the aircraft course, unless the direction of the wind reverses.Agreed. But that's not what you said. You said a bomb couldn't land upwind when, clearly, it could. Yes, it won't travel as far as a bomb dropped under still conditions but it will still travel forward into the wind.
The other thing to bear in mind is that windspeed and direction can change drastically at different altitudes.
None of this changes the fact that bombs did not fall in even remotely predictable ways...indeed, they still don't today, which is why we developed laser designation and GPS-aided INS kits for bombs to improve precision and accuracy.
Sighting for deflection implies consider the crosswinds. The variables could be many but the bomb will always fall in wind direction ( downwind ). If the direction of the wind reverses, just like you said, the bomb will take the new direction of the wind and it will fall downwind in the new direction. As you can see in the picture from the " Bombardiers' Information file " the bomb will be deviated in the actual direction of wind. There's no physical law that can bring it on the opposite direction, towards the wind (upwind). Turbolence, updrafts and downdrafts could influence the fall of the bomb, which would land short, long, to the right or to the left of the target, but the cross - trail ( CT ) cannot be negative, that means, in the picture below, that the bomb will not fall to the right of the aircraft course, unless the direction of the wind reverses.
View attachment 720518
They are perfectly aligned till they are in the bomb bay. In the precise moment they leave the aircraft every one of them is taken by the wind, each in its personal way. But even if they will touch earth the much scattered as possible, as a whole they will be deflected in the same direction, to the left of the aircraft if the crosswind comes form right, to the right of it if the crosswind comes from left.But the degree to which each individual bomb is affected by the wind will vary depending on each bomb's heading. Your diagram shows the bomb on exactly the same heading as the aircraft. Many bombs didn't fall like that. They wobbled after release or an imprecisely-fitted or damaged tail assembly would alter the bomb's heading. Thus the wind would affect each bomb differently, resulting in lateral spread, just as I keep trying to explain. Some of the bombs would fall "less downwind" and some might fall "more downwind" but you still end up with lateral spread.
Again, look at this image of bombs coming out of a B-24. How many of them are perfectly aligned with the aircraft's heading, do you think?
View attachment 720521
They are perfectly aligned till they are in the bomb bay. In the precise moment they leave the aircraft every one of them is taken by the wind, each in its personal way. But even if they will touch earth the much scattered as possible, as a whole they will be deflected in the same direction, to the left of the aircraft if the crosswind comes form right, to the right of it if the crosswind comes from left.
A lot of arm waving here guys. i might suggest that someone finds some literature on the physics of the ballistics of bombs and the effects of wind direction on bombing. I'm certain there is some out there.