Advanced designs

[Henk]

Cheers mate and thanks for the great info. Great pics and a another sad ending to a great aircraft.

Henk

 

[Twitch]

Thanks- I have plenty of pics but was light on specifications for the XF-12.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it's looks aren't exactily amazing.......

 

[Twitch]

It's a sleek mutha though!

 

[Twitch]

This woulda been a mean ground pounder

MANSYU
KI-98
Whether the Saab 21 of nearly identical layout was copied or not in 1943, the Ki-98 was very similar. It was born as a ground attack aircraft though several other planes already filled that role, which was not a big priority in Japan in any case. Of course Japan later expected an Allied landing on its shores so that is why ground attack craft were reconsidered.

Much slower planes like the Ki-45 and Ki-102 in ground attack were effective but suffered at the hands of Allied fighters mostly driving them to night usage to survive much like the twin-engine Bf 110 in Germany. Ground attack can't be carried out at night so a higher speed day fighter was called for.

The Ki-98 was to have a span of 37 feet and a length of 37.3 feet with a loaded weight of 9,921 lbs. Performance was to come from a turbo-supercharged 2,200 HP Mitsubishi Ha. 211ru, 18-cylinder radial turning a four-blade pusher propeller. It looked not unlike the aforementioned J4M1. At least it was proposing a powerful enough engine. The twin-boom met the wing at slightly different angles and the nose of the Ki-98 was more pointed.

In that nose were to reside a pair of 20 mm Ho-5s and one 37 mm Ho-203 cannon. That nose would slice through the air at 454 MPH up at 32,810 feet with speed unknown on the deck. Ceiling was to be 39,370 feet and the plane would have a range of 621 miles. Underwing ordnance loading was not discussed though it certainly would have lent itself to any mixture of weapons.

Unorthodox airframes were never in favor with the Imperial Army or Navy procurement boards. A late war super plane, the Tachikawa Ki-94 I, was of this configuration and rejection resulted in a complete redesign to the conventionally shaped Ki-94 II. The Ki-98 did just get to the commencement of construction of a prototype though at the end of the war.

The Ki 98 was a solid design and would have offered superior prop-engine performance.

 

[Twitch]

And there was our own Lippish-style tail-less design in the XP-56

NORTHROP
XP-56
Northrop had a lesser-known tailless design in its XP-56. Conceived in 1939 it did not fly until spring of 1943 and owing to many difficulties was never fully taken though its paces. All performance figures are Northrop estimates. Span was 42.5 feet. Length was 27.5 feet and the fighter weighed 11,350 lbs. loaded. Cooling was never satisfactory for the rear-mounted 2,000 HP P W R-2800-29 18-cylinder radial. Performance figures were 456 MPH at 25,000 feet and an initial climb rate of 3,125 FPM with ceiling being 33,000 feet. Range estimate with maximum fuel was 660 miles. Proposed armament was two 20 mm with 100 RPG and four .50 cal. with 400 RPG all in the nose.

Tailless designs were too radical to be looked at seriously in the US though they had been proven acceptable in Germany where they were seen in design abundance. Had it been developed there is every indication that it could have made a good defense fighter but nothing much more owing to its limited range.

 

[hellmaker]

It's been a while since I have last posted here, so please excuse my absence. I have just finished reading some of the posts from this topic especially the most important(the first few), and I must admit that there were some really nice planes back then, but also some pretty odd looking ones too. Too bad they didn't all see active service, but also thank God they didn't see service because they might have prolonged the war far a few more years, which is not a pretty thought, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Henk]

Oh yes, that was a great little plane and just to bad they did not go more into the design.

I wonder what happend to the aircraft after they desided that they were not going to go on with the design?

Henk

 

[Twitch]

Yeah Hellmaker, while I have no doubt that the Allies would have ultimately won the war, any proliferation at an earlier time of advanced aerial weapons would have prolonged it can cost lives on all sides.

 

[carpenoctem1689]

I have always liked the way the He-162 looked. That little fighter, if it could have been made out of light weight metals, or with proper glues, and the fuel extended some, it could have been a truly great fighter. The He-280 was cool too. Its a shame that it wasnt improved and put into production, i mean, early on, late 1943 anyway, they could of had some operational. I also liked the Kikka, the japanese version of the Me-262, or something similar in layout anyway, but smaller, and without guns, meant for ground attack, however it needed some more output from its engines, because late war prop driven allied fighters could catch it. I like the folding wings though, so they could be stored in caves, or just closer together. The most powerful design i ever have seen is the Me.P1101/99....five 55mm auto-cannons and a 75mm cannon. If all the guns were fired at once though, i cant imagine the damn thing not tearing to pieces or stopping in midair.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

, dude the He-162 was made of wood cos Germany didn't have alot of raw material and the wood was cheaper, and prolly easier to build

though had it been made of metal

 

[Twitch]

The P1101/99 had 4 of the cannon mounted to fire on an angle upwards-Schräge Musik style (slanted music) in anti-bomber configuration so you'd never fire all weapons at once. But an ambitious design it was.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Some Me-163's were tested with that system, using a photo electric cell to trigger the weapons, the idea being that as the bombers flew overhead the weapons would fire...one B-17 was shot down with this system on a Komet...

 

[Twitch]

I believe the Schräge Musik arrangement was pilot-activated like mormal guns and was mounted on an angle with below an behind as the optimum position to fire. The Me 163 system was actually mortar tubes that fired straight up and had countercharges to lessen the recoil of the ordnance.

 

[Gemhorse]

Speaking of 75mm cannon, this design was surprising from this manufacturer and merits a brief mention....2 examples of this twin-engined attack aircraft were ordered from Beech in 1943....Potentially a powerful attack aircraft, the Beech Model 28 [XA-38 in US Army service] was produced only in prototype form with a nose-mounted 75mm cannon. Production armament would have added 2 remotely controlled barbettes. It had a crew of 3, power was provided by two Wright R-3350-43 Cyclone radials producing 2,300 hp each, weighed 35,264 lbs [max take-off], span 67 ft 4in, length 51ft 9in. Performance was 376 mph max level speed. Was finally delivered for evaluation in 1945....Perhaps with jets coming in vogue it was too late but would've been useful abit earlier.....

 

[Twitch]

See, it shows the Yanks can be just as outrageous as the Germans!

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

looks kinda conventional compared to the others if u ask me

 

[cheddar cheese]

See, it shows the Yanks can be just as outrageous as the Germans!

Although not as outrageous as the Italians, 102mm, hell yeah...

 

[Henk]

The Italians had the best one, it looks nice and you can not see it if you have a quick look.

Henk

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Something tells me though that the muzzle blast of that 102mm cannon would crumple the nose of that aircraft, and if it didnt use powerful german engines, like the -801 radials, or other strong radials it would be slow as hell, and the recoil might damn near stop the thing dead in mid air. knowing that italian industry was poor, it ws probably hand loaded to top it all off, like early 75mm b-25s