SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Thanks for that. It's eye opening to read the ever increasing number of carriers being laid down as the war progressed.
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Thanks for that. It's eye opening to read the ever increasing number of carriers being laid down as the war progressed.For those of you who might be interested, here's a file on the history of Aircraft Carriers. Not complete, but a good start.
The first trial of an angled flight deck seems to be 1952 on HMS Triumph.
Several Japanese carriers often had three lifts, but deck edge lifts aside, this was rare on other navies' carriers. Only HMS Ark Royal (91) and Graf Zeppelin come to mind.Several carriers had larger elevators and could accommodate unfolded wings
True that. With the exception of March/April 1942's raid on Ceylon, I don't think a Japanese carrier ever left the Pacific Ocean.I don't think the IJN was planning a transit of the Panama Canal.
It's amazing to me that when someone was thinking up this rats nest of a layout that someone else at IJN design didn't say, hey, why don't we just angle the flight deck to clear the bows for faster rotations?I knew about the 3 flight deck layout but I didn't know about the elevator arrangements. Seems kind of complicated.
Nice pictures but you are mixing the correct length in feet with a beam of 38 metres, about the same as Yamato!True that. With the exception of March/April 1942's raid on Ceylon, I don't think a Japanese carrier ever left the Pacific Ocean.
The Izumo-class can try it today, shown below along with USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76). At 814 ft long and 38ft wide, the Izumo-class are small relative to the IJN carriers that would have transited either the Suez or Panama canals.
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I must have missed this post. I have wondered for decades what that thing on the flight deck was in that photo.The most interesting thing to me about IJN lifts are the double deckers that rise above the flight deck, allowing aircraft from both the lower and upper hangars to be moved to the flight deck in one lift rotation. HMS Ark Royal had double decker lifts, but the upper lift did not rise above the flight deck, meaning any aircraft from the lower hangar had to be shuffled onto the upper hangar and then put back onto the lift.
You can see the IJNS Kaga's double decker lift risen above the flight deck here. The IJN must have allowed for the weight of two loaded aircraft on these double lifts.
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Possibly, but Hiryu and Soryu did not have that capability so I'm not sure IJN doctrine would have allowed that flexibility. KdB had trained and fought with the idea that all carriers launch and strike as one, the "secret" to their early success in overwhelming their opponents.*SNIP*
With that in mind, it the Akagi and Kaga had retained at least the two decks, the Battle of Midway may have taken and ugly turn for the USN, as the lower deck would have been clear for launching additional CAP/strikes while the upper deck remained clear for recovering the returning strike force from Midway.
Beyond a preemptive strike on a peacetime USA, the IJN had no early success. Coral Sea was a draw, at best, and the Ceylon Raid mostly a fail, sinking an old, undefended carrier and couple of cruisers. The KdB's ultimate test would be at Midway, where they failed. They never overwhelmed any opponents.KdB had trained and fought with the idea that all carriers launch and strike as one, the "secret" to their early success in overwhelming their opponents.
Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I was referring more to Pearl Harbor, Wake Island, Rabaul, Darwin, Colombo et. al.Beyond a preemptive strike on a peacetime USA, the IJN had no early success. Coral Sea was a draw, at best, and the Ceylon Raid mostly a fail, sinking an old, undefended carrier and couple of cruisers. The KdB's ultimate test would be at Midway, where they failed. They never overwhelmed any opponents.
I agree with your post, but Force Z was taken out by land based IJN strike aircraft, not the KdB.Prince of Wales & Repulse as well.
Combined Ops?I agree with your post, but Force Z was taken out by land based IJN strike aircraft, not the KdB.
I don't think so, as the torpedo strike had no fighter escort. That's the sad part, per Bloody Shambles, had Phillips informed the RAF where he was and where he was going, the Buffaloes would have torn apart the unarmoured and matchstick bombers.Combined Ops?
It is true that Nagumo would follow the doctrine of "en masse" - but some carrier's decks/hangars were cluttered with aircraft being rearmed and refueled when the SBDs arrived.Possibly, but Hiryu and Soryu did not have that capability so I'm not sure IJN doctrine would have allowed that flexibility. KdB had trained and fought with the idea that all carriers launch and strike as one, the "secret" to their early success in overwhelming their opponents.
However, as you point out, with two ships able to multi-task, perhaps IJN doctrine would have developed slightly different to allow for the above scenario. An interesting "what if" you've posed.
Nagumo was lucky too. For whatever reason he opted to not put up a CAP whilst sailing around waiting for his scouts to report in. A strike from Ceylon could have got through, and we know that IJN carriers need only a single bomb to crack into a fireball.Had Sommerville not played the cagey cat and mouse game he (wisely) did in the Indian Ocean, things could have gotten pretty messy for the British Eastern Fleet as well.
See if you could score some Martlets. Just saying.Nagumo was lucky too. For whatever reason he opted to not put up a CAP whilst sailing around waiting for his scouts to report in. A strike from Ceylon could have got through, and we know that IJN carriers need only a single bomb to crack into a fireball.
Put me in charge, and with the intel Britain had Nagumo is toast, lol. Set a Ceylon trap for Nagumo, March 1942