Aircraft wrecks in Germany?

[daveT]

I'll be traveling to Germany later this year. Anybody know what the laws are about aircraft wrecks in Germany? Anybody know where any are? Anybody know any guides or contacts in Germany? Lastly, Anybody know where I can see a wreck in a museum in Germany?
Thank you for looking.

 

[Kingscoy]

The law in Germany is quite strict. You'll need a lot of permits if ammunition and or aviation fuel etc etc is suspected. Next to permits which allow you to have weapons. And of course permission of the landowner. And you just can't dig just like that whitout knowing if any aircrew remains are present within the wreck.
There are recovery groups active in Germany...easy to find on the internet. You could visit our collection...but that is in Holland, about 15 miles east of Arnhem...very near to the German border.
Cheers Sander

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He is correct. It is not easy in Germany. Especially because most of the land is not publicly owned land.

As for seeing a wreck in a museum, go check out the Sinsheim Museum. They have a great Ju 87 wreck pulled from the Med.

 

[Barrett]

Speaking of ammunition: there's a huge Facebook post (under Allied Airmen of WW II, I think) about a UK gardener who just unearthed an intact U.S. .50 caliber round. CONSTERNATION! Comments range from DON'T TOUCH it to CALL THE AUTHORITIES in the UK to "What's the big deal?" Over Here. Evidently you can go away for having a live cartridge (distinct from "bullet" BTW) in the UK. Thing is: the round is not going to self-explode after 70 some years. Even if it did, even with heat applied, it'd be an open-air low-order detonation. There must be thousands of such items across Europe. Several years ago some German workers uncovered a Tallboy, as I recall...city blocks were evacuated until the ordies did their work.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Speaking of ammunition: there's a huge Facebook post (under Allied Airmen of WW II, I think) about a UK gardener who just unearthed an intact U.S. .50 caliber round. CONSTERNATION! Comments range from DON'T TOUCH it to CALL THE AUTHORITIES in the UK to "What's the big deal?" Over Here. Evidently you can go away for having a live cartridge (distinct from "bullet" BTW) in the UK. Thing is: the round is not going to self-explode after 70 some years. Even if it did, even with heat applied, it'd be an open-air low-order detonation. There must be thousands of such items across Europe. Several years ago some German workers uncovered a Tallboy, as I recall...city blocks were evacuated until the ordies did their work.

In Germany everytime there is construction there is the potential to find something. I can't even count how many times my school as a kid, or the my neighborhood was evacuated because a WW2 UXO was found.

 

[pbehn]

I like the idea that there are a few thousand plane wrecks in Europe left untouched for 75 years for people to look at.

 

[daveT]

The law in Germany is quite strict. You'll need a lot of permits if ammunition and or aviation fuel etc etc is suspected. Next to permits which allow you to have weapons. And of course permission of the landowner. And you just can't dig just like that whitout knowing if any aircrew remains are present within the wreck.
There are recovery groups active in Germany...easy to find on the internet. You could visit our collection...but that is in Holland, about 15 miles east of Arnhem...very near to the German border.
Cheers Sander

Any recommendations for recovery groups?

 

[Kingscoy]

Give me some time to see which groups are out there. Which area of Germany are you visiting?

 

[Kingscoy]

I like the idea that there are a few thousand plane wrecks in Europe left untouched for 75 years for people to look at.

Actually....the most a/c crashed during ww2 in Europe went down in the Netherlands. Almost 7500 a/c. And due to the type of soil almost half of that number still are laying deep underground here.

 

[pbehn]

Actually....the most a/c crashed during ww2 in Europe went down in the Netherlands. Almost 7500 a/c. And due to the type of soil almost half of that number still are laying deep underground here.

Same in UK, if there was surface wreckage it was cleared almost immediately, the ones remaining need a digger to go down 3 or four meters. They are excavating a Hurricane at the moment and hope to get enough to rebuild it, this means getting the relevant frame number.

 

[Kingscoy]

Same in UK, if there was surface wreckage it was cleared almost immediately, the ones remaining need a digger to go down 3 or four meters. They are excavating a Hurricane at the moment and hope to get enough to rebuild it, this means getting the relevant frame number.

The most extreme depth we ever reached digging on a JG 77 Me109G-14 was 8 meters. But the average depth here is also 3 to 4 meters.

 

[pbehn]

The most extreme depth we ever reached digging on a JG 77 Me109G-14 was 8 meters. But the average depth here is also 3 to 4 meters.

Some regions in UK like East Anglia are just like the Netherlands, they even look the same as far as some churches and buildings go because it was the Dutch that drained them.

 

[daveT]

Give me some time to see which groups are out there. Which area of Germany are you visiting?

I'm visiting Ramstein AFB located in southwest Germany for an extended stay

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I'm visiting Ramstein AFB located in southwest Germany for an extended stay

Ah good old Ramstein. About 2 hours north from my family home.

 

[Kingscoy]

I'm visiting Ramstein AFB located in southwest Germany for an extended stay

Roger that...will search for active groups sometime next week...currently falling out of C130s...not having the best internet connection on the DZ

 

[Kingscoy]

Hi Dave,
Have a look on the website(also in English) attached. They are pretty active throughout whole Germany and have links of other groups listed.

Verweise

Hope it helps you finding what you are looking for.

Cheers,
Sander

 

[ssg keay]

A US .50 might be pretty safe, but as with any round, if it cooks of, the bullet will not just fall off, it will separate from the casing like it would when fired, just no barrel to aim it.

Speaking of ammunition: there's a huge Facebook post (under Allied Airmen of WW II, I think) about a UK gardener who just unearthed an intact U.S. .50 caliber round. CONSTERNATION! Comments range from DON'T TOUCH it to CALL THE AUTHORITIES in the UK to "What's the big deal?" Over Here. Evidently you can go away for having a live cartridge (distinct from "bullet" BTW) in the UK. Thing is: the round is not going to self-explode after 70 some years. Even if it did, even with heat applied, it'd be an open-air low-order detonation. There must be thousands of such items across Europe. Several years ago some German workers uncovered a Tallboy, as I recall...city blocks were evacuated until the ordies did their work.

 

[ssg keay]

Do yourself a favor and stay away from Uwe Benkel and his circus. They are located near Ramstein and everything they do is illegal nowadays.

Any recommendations for recovery groups?

 

[nuuumannn]

The Deutsches Technik Museum in Berlin has a couple of interesting wrecks on display, including this Ju 87:

Stuka

And this Lancaster centre section. it's quite difficult to photograph because of the surrounding displays:

Lancaster wreck secton

Lancaster ii

At the air museum at Finowfurt, the former Soviet air base in the former DDR is a collection of wrecks recovered by a group, whose name I forget.

A fuselage section from a Bf 109 two seater:

Bf 109 2 seater

A Merlin from Lancaster Mk.I ED328.

Merlin

A bit of info on the Lanc:

101 Squadron Lancaster I ED328 SR-S Fl/Sgt. Naffin

Might be worth swinging by the Finowfurt museum for more information.