All aircraft and stories

[Rell]

You all keep putting topics like what the best aircraft is, best aircraft for night raids, best bi plane, best looking plane, best plane to flying during early evening around 6ish etc

But if someone was going to make a film about any aircraft during WW2 (could just be about one particular raid or jorney or man) what do you think would make the best film, bear in mind it has to be action packed, and have a good story etc

p.s I wonder which part of the Gladiators history Bronze Whaler will recommend

 

[nutter]

well its got to be the battle of britain hasn't it
or a remake of the dambusters

 

[jj1982]

Some of you may have heard about a chap call Douglas Bader. He was born in 1910 in london. His father died from a shrapnel wound in 1922. Douglas joined the RAF in 1928 having won his cadetship. He reported to Cranwell in Sept '28 and underwent his flight training. His superious did not like his rebellious attitude and was warneed that the RAF would'nt go on understanding. His flying improved dramaticlly and came in second to being awared the sword of honour.

After graduating in 1930, Bader was commisioned a piolet officer and was posted to 23 squadron at Kenly airfield (Just up the road from me actually) and was flying the gloster gamecock. The 23 squadron was latter eqquiped with the Bristol Bulldog Fighters where a stint of showing off with some aerobatics in a plane that he was inexpereinced in went horribly wrong. Bader flew too low in the bulldog, began a slow turn and clipped the ground with one of the wings. Baders right leg was was amputated above the knee and the left leg six inches below the knee.

After a long recovery Bader was transferred to the RAF hospital in Uxbridge in 1932. He was the first person to require two artificial legs from the Dessoutter brothers who made two legs out of light metal alloys...much the same as aluminium.

Soon he was driving a car, andhis thoughts returned to flying. In April 1933 he was retired on grounds of ill health.

In september 1939 Bader again applied to the RAf for flight duties and was helped by an old friend. I havent his name. He passed a flying test at the RAF's CFS in Ipavon.

In nov '30, Bader flew solo in an Avro Tudor K. He doon moved up into the fairey battle, then to the spitfires and finally got a chance inside a hurricane. In feb 1940, Bader joined 19squadron at Duxford (Visited many times with old friend Bronze, actually where i remember all about his from). At age 29 he was appointed flight commander in 222 squadron. He carelessly took off with his section with the spitfires propeller set to coarse pitch and crashed. He bent his legs. He admitted his mistake and was not reprimanded. Bader trained his 222 flight piliots in his own style of fighting. In June 1940 the squadron was sent to dunkirk to cover the evac. He Got his first kill here, M ME -109.

In June 1940, Bader was given command of 242 squadron, A candadian unit. The pilots were apprehensive about thier new legless leader, however Bader set out o prove them what he was made of and throughly impressed them by taking up a hurricane and displaying aerobatics for half an hour. (You would have thought he learnt his lesson first time round). The squadron was re-equipped with the necessaries to matain the planes they were flying. On August 30th, 242 squadron intercepted a group of 30 ferman bombers and fighters. Beteween them they claimed 11 kills, a respectful figure but bader said that if they had three or more squadrons attacking the huge german formation, all of the attackers would have been shot down. Thus, the "big Wing" concept was born.#

Bader led the wing into action for the first time on 7sept 1940 against a large german formation heading for london. However having scrambled too late, the wing was underneath the bombers and the figher escorts when they intersepted north of the Thames. All 242 and 310 could do was to attack as best they could whislt 19 squadron's spitfires held off the attacking Me-109's. The wing destroyed 11 aircraft with only two hurricanes shot down.

The Polish 302 hurricane squadron and the Auxiliarry 601 spitfire squadron was later added to the wing. The tactic worked hen on sept 5th 1940 Baders Duxford wing helped to break up a massed luftwaffe attack on London.

When the BoB ended, Bader was awared the DFC and DSO for gallantry and leadership of the highest order and became commander of the duxford Wing, which was later credited with destroying 152 german aircraft with the loss of only 30 pilots.

In march 1941, Bader now a wing commander left 242 and took over Tangmree Wing, consisiting of three spitfire squadrons, 145, 610 and 616, plus a Beaufighter squadron. The wing developed the finger four formation which later became standard throughout the RAF and AAF.

Whilst leading his wing over france on on August 9 1941, Bader suffered a mid air collison with a Me-109 and was captured by the germans. Hie spent most of the war in captivity including time and the castle Colditz for his escape efforts. Once released, he rushed to paris to demand a spitfire but permission was refused. His personal tally stood at 22.5 german aircraft!He returned to England and took command of of the essex secotr of 11th Group at North Weal. On September 15 he personally led the victory flypast of 300 RAF planes over london.

After leaving the RAF in late Feb 1946 Bader flew all over the world, visiteing services hospital. He was knighed in 1976 for his service to amputees "So many of whom he had helped and inspired by his example and character." On september 5th 1982 Douglas Bader died of a heart ataack..He was 72 years old.

"He became a legend at the first in the personification of RAF heroism during the Second World War"

 

[jj1982]

oops i forgot to mention that i think that the story of this incredibley, brave (stupid some may say!) man, his personal courage, gallentry and pure enthusiasm would make a great film.
Just a quick word of thanks to my old friend Bronzewhaler who convinced me many years ago that although Duxford is some distance from home, it was worth a drive up there. Without his unrelenting earache i would never have got to learn about these amazing facts of such an incredible person. Also I have my grandfather to thank as he provided me with a lot of the dates i used...so blame him not me if you think the details are wrong.

 

[jj1982]

If there is anyone out there with stories of similar feats then please let me know as I am going to start a project about amazing pilots of the 2nd ww. They do not have to be aces but perhaps one who has shown tremendous courage in the face of adversity. let me know, message me or even just leave a reply..I will consider all materials, particulary interested though in any russian pilots. Will even consider yanks!!!!

 

[cheddar cheese]

well, a remake of the damnbusters would be jolly spiffing 8) it cant be done by the americans though, or there will be F-16 jets instead of lancasters and there will be a big explosion in which some british people would be "accidently" killed 8)

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Guy Penrose Gibson. he was the main man during the Dambusters raid. he showed amazing courage by escorting each plane on it's attack run to try and draw away the flack, it's debateable weather the raid would have been a sucess if he hadn't..............................

 

[cheddar cheese]

hmmmmm......

 

[Hot Space]

Some of you may have heard about a chap call Douglas Bader. He was born in 1910 in london. His father died from a shrapnel wound in 1922. Douglas joined the RAF in 1928 having won his cadetship. He reported to Cranwell in Sept '28 and underwent his flight training. His superious did not like his rebellious attitude and was warneed that the RAF would'nt go on understanding. His flying improved dramaticlly and came in second to being awared the sword of honour.

After graduating in 1930, Bader was commisioned a piolet officer and was posted to 23 squadron at Kenly airfield (Just up the road from me actually) and was flying the gloster gamecock. The 23 squadron was latter eqquiped with the Bristol Bulldog Fighters where a stint of showing off with some aerobatics in a plane that he was inexpereinced in went horribly wrong. Bader flew too low in the bulldog, began a slow turn and clipped the ground with one of the wings. Baders right leg was was amputated above the knee and the left leg six inches below the knee.

After a long recovery Bader was transferred to the RAF hospital in Uxbridge in 1932. He was the first person to require two artificial legs from the Dessoutter brothers who made two legs out of light metal alloys...much the same as aluminium.

Soon he was driving a car, andhis thoughts returned to flying. In April 1933 he was retired on grounds of ill health.

In september 1939 Bader again applied to the RAf for flight duties and was helped by an old friend. I havent his name. He passed a flying test at the RAF's CFS in Ipavon.

In nov '30, Bader flew solo in an Avro Tudor K. He doon moved up into the fairey battle, then to the spitfires and finally got a chance inside a hurricane. In feb 1940, Bader joined 19squadron at Duxford (Visited many times with old friend Bronze, actually where i remember all about his from). At age 29 he was appointed flight commander in 222 squadron. He carelessly took off with his section with the spitfires propeller set to coarse pitch and crashed. He bent his legs. He admitted his mistake and was not reprimanded. Bader trained his 222 flight piliots in his own style of fighting. In June 1940 the squadron was sent to dunkirk to cover the evac. He Got his first kill here, M ME -109.

In June 1940, Bader was given command of 242 squadron, A candadian unit. The pilots were apprehensive about thier new legless leader, however Bader set out o prove them what he was made of and throughly impressed them by taking up a hurricane and displaying aerobatics for half an hour. (You would have thought he learnt his lesson first time round). The squadron was re-equipped with the necessaries to matain the planes they were flying. On August 30th, 242 squadron intercepted a group of 30 ferman bombers and fighters. Beteween them they claimed 11 kills, a respectful figure but bader said that if they had three or more squadrons attacking the huge german formation, all of the attackers would have been shot down. Thus, the "big Wing" concept was born.#

Bader led the wing into action for the first time on 7sept 1940 against a large german formation heading for london. However having scrambled too late, the wing was underneath the bombers and the figher escorts when they intersepted north of the Thames. All 242 and 310 could do was to attack as best they could whislt 19 squadron's spitfires held off the attacking Me-109's. The wing destroyed 11 aircraft with only two hurricanes shot down.

The Polish 302 hurricane squadron and the Auxiliarry 601 spitfire squadron was later added to the wing. The tactic worked hen on sept 5th 1940 Baders Duxford wing helped to break up a massed luftwaffe attack on London.

When the BoB ended, Bader was awared the DFC and DSO for gallantry and leadership of the highest order and became commander of the duxford Wing, which was later credited with destroying 152 german aircraft with the loss of only 30 pilots.

In march 1941, Bader now a wing commander left 242 and took over Tangmree Wing, consisiting of three spitfire squadrons, 145, 610 and 616, plus a Beaufighter squadron. The wing developed the finger four formation which later became standard throughout the RAF and AAF.

Whilst leading his wing over france on on August 9 1941, Bader suffered a mid air collison with a Me-109 and was captured by the germans. Hie spent most of the war in captivity including time and the castle Colditz for his escape efforts. Once released, he rushed to paris to demand a spitfire but permission was refused. His personal tally stood at 22.5 german aircraft!He returned to England and took command of of the essex secotr of 11th Group at North Weal. On September 15 he personally led the victory flypast of 300 RAF planes over london.

After leaving the RAF in late Feb 1946 Bader flew all over the world, visiteing services hospital. He was knighed in 1976 for his service to amputees "So many of whom he had helped and inspired by his example and character." On september 5th 1982 Douglas Bader died of a heart ataack..He was 72 years old.

"He became a legend at the first in the personification of RAF heroism during the Second World War"

A boring fact here, but did you know that Douglas Bader could pull the tightest "G" of ANYONE ever who has flown a Plane

Hot Space

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

did you know that the design of the spitfire was so good that the fusilage and wings could take strain up to Mach 1.3 without breaking up....................

 

[Hot Space]

Did you know that one went Mach 0.93 in a Dive once

Hot Space

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Although it didn't happen during WW2 i think Alcock and Browns first non-stop transatlantic flight in 1919 would make a fantastic film!

Although not everyone knows about it those guys went through hell to do it! they were absolute heroes!

Captain John Alcock and Lt Arthur Whitten Brown (Pilot and Navigator) took off from Newfoundland in the USA on the 14th June 1919 and landed (well, crashed) 16 hours later in Clifden in Ireland - they were the very first men to fly solo across the atlantic and they achived this amazing feat flying a Vickers Vimy twin engined bi-plane that was named after a famous battle during WW1. It was originally designed as a heavy bomber during WW1 (but arrived too late to see active service) the vimy itself is an amazing aircraft which was also used to fly from London to Australia in 1919 and then from London to Capetown (South Africa) in 1920.

Alcock and Brown experienced all sorts of problems during the flight - Atlantic weather is some of the worst you can see.

Their radio broke down shortly after takeoff, fog enveloped the men making visibility very poor Alcock later commented "We are tired of being alone in the fog and drizzle, sometimes discovering that we are flying upside down" On several occasions the fog would clear just enough for Alcock to spot that they were mere feet away from crashing into the sea. At one point Alcock lost control of the plane and it began to spin in the air. Emerging from the fog they found themselves dangerously close to the sea. However, through Alcock's expert flying, the plane began to regain its position and they climbed back up into the sky.
Brown only had a naval sextant to navigate with and this itself is nearly impossible without clear skies - when they finally found one clear patch of clear sky Brown used the star constalation 'Vega' and the moon to fix their position.
At one point an exhaust flap panel came loose and the intense heat and flames from the port engines outlet began to melt the aircraft!

Once the pair finally sighted Ireland they came in to land at 8.40am in Clifden - they thought they had spotted a nice green field to set their plane down...they ignored the local people frantically waving their arms to warn the airmen of their mistake because Alcock and Brown simply assumed they were welcoming them..the 'field' was in fact a bog and the plane was damaged during the landing (as my signature picture clearly illustrates) upon arriving "safely" in Ireland the two exhausted and slightly bruised men were welcomed by the locals (soldiers, wireless operators and local residents) most of whom were wearing pyjamas! The Aviators were assisted from the remains of the Vimy and cpatain Alcock produced some letters he had been given back in the US to deliver once he reached Ireland - they were soaked with rainwater and he remarked Ironically "I'm the first transatlantic postman"

Their achivement was amazing (although most people who have no enthusiasm about aviation wouldn't know Alcock and Brown if they met them) and it will live on in history - not only was it a historical occasion but a great triumph of British aviation - a British Plane with a British Crew had done something no-one else had achived before - Alcock later remarked "Yesterday I was in America...I am the first man in Europe to say that"

The actual Vickers Vimy that flew the Atlantic ocean has been repaired and is on display at the Science museaum in London

The image below on my Signature is a picture of the crashed Vickers Vimy in Ireland and as you can see the two men were quite lucky to escape with their lives - when you consider the cockpit where they sat was situated right in the front nose of the plane

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well the vimy was the first to fly from england to australia, which i think is more impressive than crossong the atlanctic

 

[bronzewhaler82]

I think that just highlights how much we take cross atlantic travel for granted - it was no easy feat - Australia may have taken longer but i'm sure the atlantic journey was more tretcharous - you have to appreciate that it was the first time anything like that had ever been done - non-one had ever thought it was possible - and if Alcock and Brown hadn't have done it - the trip to australia wouldn't have happened in 1920

 

[Andrew]

A good story to tell in film form would be about Adrian Warburton, the famous Photo Reconnaissance Pilot, who flew one mission too many , while he was on sick leave , posted to a P38 Lightning Sqaudron as a liason officer.

Andrew

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Was that a joke? i wasn't sure cos if it was it went totally over my head

 

[jj1982]

Adrian Warburton was on leave when he flew over Germany and dissapeared on the 12 of April, 1944. I am unsure whether or not this mystery has been solved, so Andrew, Please enlighten us with a tad more details.

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Adrian Warburton was on leave when he flew over Germany and dissapeared on the 12 of April, 1944. I am unsure whether or not this mystery has been solved, so Andrew, Please enlighten us with a tad more details.

Are you sure he was on leave? only i didn't think pilots 'on leave' were allowed to borrow military aircraft and fly over enemy territory sitting in it!

 

[jj1982]

He was meant to be on leave but for some bizzare reason he decided to fly out on a mission......I think.....I cant remember all details., obviously Andrew does however

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Yeah Andrew - please post more details -we're all facinated.........I think