"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (9 Viewers)

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GTX said:
Good

A point of shame...along with the refusal to supply Hawkeis and to even consider the sending of the M1A1 Abrams once they start getting replaced with M1A2 this year.
Click to expand...
The problem is that the MRH90's are problematic and Ukraine needs tried and proven machines at the moment.

They simply don't have time to debug and rework equipment at this point in time.

If we want to give them a solid helo, then send the UH-60s.

Or even mothballed AH-1s, for that matter.
 
The MRH90's were highly problematic in Australian service but the Kiwis and other nations that operate them seem to have no problems with them.

Our Kiwi members have already covered this in small detail - including the fact that the Kiwi aircraft are world leaders in utilization so the problem is not that the Aus machines are worn out. The problem with the MRH90's in Aus is the Aus military.

One recent news item was how the Army safety people evaluated the HUD units and found they would most likely cause the pilots to fly into the ground or water when operated at night yet they continued to operate the machines with that HUD right up to the inevitable end then grounded them and blamed the aircraft.

Other accident investigations found that mandatory service bulletins had not been carried out on the crashed aircraft.

If you want a good example of the mentality track down a copy of the RAAF B707 crash at Longford. They told Boeing what they intended as a training exercise and Boeing said no way - it is too dangerous. So they went ahead and did it, and, because they knew so much more than Boeing, they did it at low altitude. No survivors naturally.

Or the Qantas crash at Bangkok where they changed the B747 landing procedures to minimise fuel and maintenance costs without doing a risk analysis or any other basic thought processes.

The options you list are still better though than taking misused and badly maintained aircraft and bringing them up to standard.
 
Last edited:
This is infuriating:

KYIV, March 22 (Reuters) - A Ukrainian deputy prime minister said on Friday Russian oil refineries were legitimate targets for its forces, after a media report said the United States, a close ally, had asked Kyiv to stop conducting drone strikes on refineries.

Ukraine dramatically stepped up its attacks on Russian energy facilities this month, launching numerous long-range drones to strike Russia's biggest refineries, resulting in the temporary suspension of production at some of them.

"We understand the calls of the U.S. partners, but at the same time we are fighting with the capabilities, resources, and practices that we have," Olha Stefanishyna, the minister, told the Kyiv Security Forum.

She said energy facilities were legitimate targets from a military point of view.

The Financial Times cited people familiar with the matter saying Washington had urged Kyiv to halt strikes, warning of the risk of provoking retaliation and driving up global oil prices.

The attacks helped boost oil prices that have risen nearly 4% so far since March 12, when Ukraine hit a major oil refinery.


I wonder if these are the same collaborators who are holding up the next aid package we should be sending.
 
Thumpalumpacus said:
This is infuriating:

KYIV, March 22 (Reuters) - A Ukrainian deputy prime minister said on Friday Russian oil refineries were legitimate targets for its forces, after a media report said the United States, a close ally, had asked Kyiv to stop conducting drone strikes on refineries.

Ukraine dramatically stepped up its attacks on Russian energy facilities this month, launching numerous long-range drones to strike Russia's biggest refineries, resulting in the temporary suspension of production at some of them.

"We understand the calls of the U.S. partners, but at the same time we are fighting with the capabilities, resources, and practices that we have," Olha Stefanishyna, the minister, told the Kyiv Security Forum.

She said energy facilities were legitimate targets from a military point of view.

The Financial Times cited people familiar with the matter saying Washington had urged Kyiv to halt strikes, warning of the risk of provoking retaliation and driving up global oil prices.

The attacks helped boost oil prices that have risen nearly 4% so far since March 12, when Ukraine hit a major oil refinery.


I wonder if these are the same collaborators who are holding up the next aid package we should be sending.
Click to expand...

... and meanwhile, what are they saying about this?

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia attacked electrical power facilities in much of Ukraine, including the country's largest hydroelectric plant, causing widespread outages and killing at least five people, officials said Friday.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said more than 60 drones and about 90 rockets were used in the attack.

The attack came a day after Russia launched 31 missiles in a single attack on the capital. It was the largest assault on Ukraine's energy infrastructure during the more than two-year-long war, said Volodymyr Kudrytsky, head of the national utility Ukrenergo.

"This attack was especially dangerous because the adversary combined different means of attack, kamikaze drones, ballistic and cruise missiles," he told The Associated Press. He said the city of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest, suffered the most damage.

Last winter, Russia targeted Ukraine's energy infrastructure, resulting in frequent blackouts across the country. Many had warned that Russia might repeat this strategy this winter. But instead, Russia has launched massive missile and drone attacks primarily directed at Ukraine's defense industry.

Every large-scale air attack depletes Ukraine's capabilities to repel Russian missiles. Zelenskyy has been urging Ukraine's Western allies for weeks to provide additional air defense systems and ammunition amid delays in aid from the U.S.

apnews.com

Russia attacks Ukrainian electrical power facilities, including major hydroelectric plant

Russia has attacked electrical power facilities in much of Ukraine, including the country’s largest hydroelectric plant, causing widespread outages and killing at least five people.
apnews.com apnews.com

Probably not a goddamned thing.
 
I think they could be right with this one.

Think a little about it.

Ukr cannot disable all refinaries by far. By attacting the ones it can only oil prizes will go up.
Specially sincce the rest of opec is cutting production. Turmoil by the hoetis and a war in gaza. What will crude oil prizes do and who will benifit. There is an embargo but for oil that is complicated.
Ukr is making big money for russia.
There are better ways to hurt your opponent in this case. It not 1944 and the ukr does not have a mighty 8 and the boys from the raf.
 
Thumpalumpacus said:
This is infuriating:

KYIV, March 22 (Reuters) - A Ukrainian deputy prime minister said on Friday Russian oil refineries were legitimate targets for its forces, after a media report said the United States, a close ally, had asked Kyiv to stop conducting drone strikes on refineries.

Ukraine dramatically stepped up its attacks on Russian energy facilities this month, launching numerous long-range drones to strike Russia's biggest refineries, resulting in the temporary suspension of production at some of them.

"We understand the calls of the U.S. partners, but at the same time we are fighting with the capabilities, resources, and practices that we have," Olha Stefanishyna, the minister, told the Kyiv Security Forum.

She said energy facilities were legitimate targets from a military point of view.

The Financial Times cited people familiar with the matter saying Washington had urged Kyiv to halt strikes, warning of the risk of provoking retaliation and driving up global oil prices.

The attacks helped boost oil prices that have risen nearly 4% so far since March 12, when Ukraine hit a major oil refinery.


I wonder if these are the same collaborators who are holding up the next aid package we should be sending.
Click to expand...
If they're not going to provide aid they get no say in how Ukraine chooses to prosecute the war.
 
Thumpalumpacus said:
This is infuriating:

KYIV, March 22 (Reuters) - A Ukrainian deputy prime minister said on Friday Russian oil refineries were legitimate targets for its forces, after a media report said the United States, a close ally, had asked Kyiv to stop conducting drone strikes on refineries.

Ukraine dramatically stepped up its attacks on Russian energy facilities this month, launching numerous long-range drones to strike Russia's biggest refineries, resulting in the temporary suspension of production at some of them.

"We understand the calls of the U.S. partners, but at the same time we are fighting with the capabilities, resources, and practices that we have," Olha Stefanishyna, the minister, told the Kyiv Security Forum.

She said energy facilities were legitimate targets from a military point of view.

The Financial Times cited people familiar with the matter saying Washington had urged Kyiv to halt strikes, warning of the risk of provoking retaliation and driving up global oil prices.

The attacks helped boost oil prices that have risen nearly 4% so far since March 12, when Ukraine hit a major oil refinery.


I wonder if these are the same collaborators who are holding up the next aid package we should be sending.
Click to expand...
No. This is from the administration.
High gas prices are bad for re-election.
I've kind of given up on coherence from our elected officials.
 
Would "they" rather Ukraine strike Russian hospitals, apartment blocks, schools and shopping centers, then?

Those seem to be "legitimate" military targets according to the Russians.

In the case of Ukraine targeting oil refineries, too bad - they are trying to limit the available fuel stocks Russia needs to keep their military mobile.
I seriously doubt that Ukraine gives two sh!ts about oil prices or political posturing.
 
MiTasol said:
The MRH90's were highly problematic in Australian service but the Kiwis and other nations that operate them seem to have no problems with them.

Our Kiwi members have already covered this in small detail - including the fact that the Kiwi aircraft are world leaders in utilization so the problem is not that the Aus machines are worn out. The problem with the MRH90's in Aus is the Aus military.

One recent news item was how the Army safety people evaluated the HUD units and found they would most likely cause the pilots to fly into the ground or water when operated at night yet they continued to operate the machines with that HUD right up to the inevitable end.

Other accident investigations found that mandatory service bulletins had not been carried out on the crashed aircraft.

If you want a good example of the mentality track down a copy of the RAAF B707 crash at Longford. They told Boeing what they intended as a training exercise and Boeing said no way - it is too dangerous. So they went ahead and did it, and, because they knew so much more than Boeing, they did it at low altitude. No survivors naturally.

Or the Qantas crash at Bangkok where they changed the B747 landing procedures to minimise fuel and maintenance costs without doing a risk analysis or any other basic thought processes.

The options you list are still better though than taking misused and badly maintained aircraft and bringing them up to standard.
Click to expand...
Indeed - see here:


View: https://youtu.be/OP3TeDd25SY?si=3wXyJcA_wYDAkTsn
 
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