"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (4 Viewers)

[Admiral Beez]

I'm interested to know what is actually going to be left for them to take. In other words, what exactly is the gain in destroying a city

There's a large Ukrainian army and militia garrison there. And this war has demonstrated that every Ukrainian must be considered a potential partisan. By eliminating the city and its fighting potential the Russians can redeploy their army to fight elsewhere. That's why the Ukrainians are trying to hold the city, to deny the Russians the ability to concentrate their forces elsewhere.

This explains why civilians are targeted, https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/13/opinion/putin-ukraine-war-strategy.html

"But it's their human sensors — the informal Ukrainian observer corps — that are devastating the Russians. Grandmas with iPhones can trump satellites. "The Ukrainian observer corps is made up of babushkas and kids and anyone else who has got a smartphone," he said. "And they've been calling in the locations of where the Russian units are and where they're moving. And so the Ukrainian forces have this big edge in finding the Russians in this big country, and that is giving their small units with smart weapons" real-time, actionable intelligence."

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They look like different ships. The red almost goes up the entire way in the sinking ship.

Isn't the other one a cruise ship that burned and sank a while back? I thought I read that, but I could be wrong.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Isn't the other one a cruise ship that burned and sank a while back? I thought I read that, but I could be wrong.

Damn it you're right! Look what I found on a quick Google image search.

Years of misplaced priorities inside Iran led to embarrassing military mishaps

A series of recent military mishaps makes it clear that Iran has failed to invest in its regular armed forces, even as it heavily bankrolls the IRGC amid an economic crisis.

diyaruna.com

The Moskva before and after:

We need to be careful about spreading misinformation about the war. A sober sniff test is always best.

Google Lens allows us to search the web for any image to make sure what is claimed is accurate, Google Lens - Search What You See

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And there you have it. An example of misinformation on the internet. (Not saying the Moskva was not sunk, just that the burning ship is not the Moskva).

The burning ship was an Iranian vessel.

Iran Investigates Fire That Sank One of Its Largest Navy Ships

The sinking of the Kharg is the latest blow to the country’s vital infrastructure and military assets.

www.wsj.com

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

So much of this reeks of the Nazis…

Philosopher known as 'Putin's brain' says Russia needs to escalate Ukraine war

 

[Admiral Beez]

Zelensky's appeal and wish list yesterday in English.

 

[J_P_C]

They look like different ships. The red almost goes up the entire way in the sinking ship.

agree its fake - background does not match as well, there is storm on black sea since last two days

 

[swampyankee]

What can the West do to help prevent the fall of Mariupol?

Maps: Tracking the Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Ukraine has staged a string of successful counterattacks in southern Ukraine around the city of Kherson.

www.nytimes.com

Ukraine war: Mass surrender of troops in Mariupol, says Russia

Russia says more than 1,000 marines in the besieged port have surrendered - but Ukraine denies this.

www.bbc.com

The city is surrounded, so weapons and reinforcements cannot easily (or at all) arrive overland. Once the city falls, the Russians will free up forces to invade more of eastern Ukraine.

Without actually committing forces, which would likely be considered a casus belli by Putin (or just about any country's government in a vaguely similar situation, such as Japan in China in the 1930s or the US in Mexico in the 1840s), sending military and non-military supplies, providi intelligence, and sanctioning Russia and Belarus is about the limit.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Don't wait for Putin to call the next shot - threaten him via NATO and the UN with a no-fly zone and UN troops involvment if hostilities are not ceased immediately in regards to attacking an internationally recognized state. Then see what bluff he will call out.

Regards
Jagdflieger

Agreed: the time has come for a firmer stand.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

They look like different ships. The red almost goes up the entire way in the sinking ship.

That's what's below the waterline. In a 12,000 ton cruiser, I'd expect the draught to be deep.

I enlarged the photos before posting and it looks like the after tower is present in the burning. I don't see the beam-mounted ASMs but I assume they were jettisoned once s**t started cooking. The forecastle step-up is visible.

ETA: I stand corrected. My apologies for it.

 

[Greg Boeser]

The Moskva before and after:

View attachment 664775

'Tis but a scratch!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm interested to know what is actually going to be left for them to take. In other words, what exactly is the gain in destroying a city
when it is more likely to galvanise opposition to any further action.

Somebody didn't think any of this through.

I think the aim is to link up the Donbas and Crimea to facilitate further operations.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

<edited due to corrections noted above>

 

[buffnut453]

Quick update on the Moskva. I do wish they'd release an image of the ship so we can see the extent of the damage


The US has been giving its reaction to Ukrainian claims that it carried out a missile strike on the Russian flagship the Moskva last night, causing significant damage.

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby has told CNN that "there was an explosion" on the warship but that the US could not yet say whether the ship was hit by a missile.

Russia says its warship remains afloat after ammunition on board caught fire, while Ukraine says the vessel was hit by its anti-ship missiles.

"We're not exactly sure what happened here. We do assess that there was an explosion - at least one explosion on this cruiser - a fairly major one at that, that has caused extensive damage to the ship," Kirby told CNN.

Kirby said the damaged Russian warship was afloat and "making her own way across the Black Sea" - "probably" for repairs at Sevastopol in Crimea.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Isn't the other one a cruise ship that burned and sank a while back? I thought I read that, but I could be wrong.

Damn it you're right! Look what I found on a quick Google image search.

Years of misplaced priorities inside Iran led to embarrassing military mishaps

A series of recent military mishaps makes it clear that Iran has failed to invest in its regular armed forces, even as it heavily bankrolls the IRGC amid an economic crisis.

diyaruna.com

We need to be careful about spreading misinformation about the war. A sober sniff test is always best.

Google Lens allows us to search the web for any image to make sure what is claimed is accurate, Google Lens - Search What You See

I stand corrected. Thank you, gentlemen.

 

[Dimlee]

"Go f yourself".
Done.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Even more apt if she was indeed crippled by an accidental onboard fire.

 

[Dimlee]

There's a large Ukrainian army and militia garrison there.

Just to be precise: Marines, National Guard (Azov) and small units of border guards and Navy and auxiliaries.
Probably some "militia" as well. In Ukraine, this is a Territorial Defence (TrO, Territorialna Oborona), but Mariupol TrO was not fully organised before the invasion.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Even more apt if she was indeed crippled by an accidental onboard fire.

As noted above, if your own weapons are doing the enemy's job for them, is that really a plus?

 

[GrauGeist]

View attachment 664742

The greatest postage stamp ever!

Ukraine issued a postage stamp commemorating the heroes of Snake Island.

"Russian warship … go f**k yourself!"

Now they need to add a Bayraktar stamp to the collection!