"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (8 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's the poor chaps surrounded and besieged in in Mariupol that need weapons and reinforcements. Some sort of parachute drop or delivery from the sea?

Ukrainian troops in Mariupol are taking ammo off Russian soldiers and smuggling in weapons to hold out against the assault

There has been "continuous heavy shelling" in the port city since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24.

news.yahoo.com

Delivery from sea will need Turkish approval; that's uncertain.

Whose airplanes would do the airdrops in your scenario? Do the Ukrainians have the lift-capacity?

 

[GrauGeist]

Delivery from sea will need Turkish approval; that's uncertain.

Whose airplanes would do the airdrops in your scenario? Do the Ukrainians have the lift-capacity?

According to Artical 19 of the Montreaux Convention, non-warring (neutral nation) ships are allowed passage.

So any ship (including warship), that does not belong to a warring nation in the region, is allowed passage.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Russia warns of nuclear weapons in Baltic if Sweden and Finland join Nato

Lithuania plays down threat, claiming Russians already have such weapons in Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad

www.theguardian.com

 

[WARSPITER]

View attachment 664794
Revell already issued update for their kit

That's actually just a rerelease of the Bismark 1942 kit. Some of these companies are getting lazy.

 

[WARSPITER]

According to Artical 19 of the Montreaux Convention, non-warring (neutral nation) ships are allowed passage.

So any ship (including warship), that does not belong to a warring nation in the region, is allowed passage.

That could be very handy.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Got this one from Jan (Lucky 13)

 

[hawkeye2an]

Warship sunk by a pair of 1-ton missiles from Ukrainian commanders

The pride of Russia's fearsome Black Sea fleet, the huge Moskva warship, was taken out yesterday in one of the most cunning operations of the war. Commanders destroyed it using drones and missiles.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

According to Artical 19 of the Montreaux Convention, non-warring (neutral nation) ships are allowed passage.

So any ship (including warship), that does not belong to a warring nation in the region, is allowed passage.

Doing a bit more reading on it, thanks for the kick in the ass.

 

[GrauGeist]

Doing a bit more reading on it, thanks for the kick in the ass.

The fine print on these treaties/conventions can make a person's eyes glaze over!

The beauty of Artical 19, is that by law, any relief ship can bring supplies, humanitatian or "other" aid directly to the Ukraine via the Black Sea without getting Putler's panties in a wad.

Be it EU, UN or NATO ships - they have legal rights under international law, to not only transit into the Black Sea, but approach any port of the Ukraine.
Any move by Russia would be considered an act of war upon any ship doing so.

So technically, a US carrier can legally and legitimately go into a Ukrainian port and Putin can't touch it.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The fine print on these treaties/conventions can make a person's eyes glaze over!

Doing some reading on Art 19, so much referred to Arts 10-18 and yeah, you know I had to try reading that. I'm about ready for a cup of coffee.

 

[WARSPITER]

That is interesting. A US nuclear carrier and it's attendant ships could then go to a Ukrainian port to offer humanitarian aid in the form
of electricity generation, water supply (desalination), and emergency medical / airlift services without contravening any international
laws. One way to get in there without a no fly zone.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That is interesting. A US nuclear carrier and it's attendant ships could then go to a Ukrainian port to offer humanitarian aid in the form
of electricity generation, water supply (desalination), and emergency medical / airlift services without contravening any international
laws. One way to get in there without a no fly zone.

I'm pretty sure the Convention bars such warships as large.

 

[GrauGeist]

I'm pretty sure the Convention bars such warships as large.

Nope, a British Frigate, Japanese Carrier or U.S. destroyer can transit the straights without issue.
They are not involved in the war.

Only Russian and Ukrainian warships are restricted under the convention, as they are at war and only their ships, as registered as being home-ported in the Black Sea are allowed passage.
Any Russian warship home-ported in the Baltic, Pacific or Syria cannot pass.

 

[WARSPITER]

That's probably correct but it depends on what Turkey sees as reasonable too. Not that I think it would happen as the US navy wouldn't be keen
on the idea.

I didn't know about the clause being there though as I thought it just meant that Turkey was denying access either way to all shipping. This certainly
leaves room for at least food and medical aid to get to Ukraine in larger amounts.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Article 19 of the Montreaux Convention regulates the passage of the Dardanelles & Bosporus straits, how is this supposed to help the beleaguered Ukrainian troops in Mariupol?

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[GrauGeist]

Article 19 of the Montreaux Convention regulates the passage of the Dardanelles straits, how is this supposed to help the beleaguered Ukrainian troops in Mariupol?

Regards
Jagdflieger

And the Bosphorus.

The conversation is about Artical 19 and who can come and go.

 

[GrauGeist]

That's probably correct but it depends on what Turkey sees as reasonable too. Not that I think it would happen as the US navy wouldn't be keen
on the idea.

I didn't know about the clause being there though as I thought it just meant that Turkey was denying access either way to all shipping. This certainly
leaves room for at least food and medical aid to get to Ukraine in larger amounts.

It's not what Turkey deems, as the convention defines who/what can pass.

For example, if Georgia decided to get involved in the fray, then their warships would fall onto the list of restricted warships, along with Ukraine and Russian warships, as Georgian warships are based in the Black Sea.

 

[Jagdflieger]

And the Bosphorus.

The conversation is about Artical 19 and who can come and go.

I know, that is also what I said - but how is this supposed to help those beleaguered Ukrainians in Mariupol?

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[WARSPITER]

I understand that. In the example you give that would mean Georgian warships would not be allowed through the Bosporus to the
Med.

What I didn't know was that non participants are allowed through as long as they fit the protocols for transit. I was under under the impression
that closed meant closed full stop until you posted re article 19.

 

[GrauGeist]

I know, that is also what I said - but how is this supposed to help those beleaguered Ukrainians in Mariupol?

Regards
Jagdflieger

You are interesting.

I post about Artical 19 of the Montreaux Convention and you go on about Maripol.

Ok, so I'll bite - under international maritime law, ANY ship (freighter, cargo or neutral warship) has the right, legally, to approach and dock at ANY Ukrainian port unmolested, as the Ukraine is a sovereign, internationally recognized nation, and offload anything they happen to be transporting.

Russia cannot object, interfere or attack as it would be seen as an act of aggression with consequences.

How it can help those in Maripol, I cannot say, since I don't own a shipping company and I am not a head of state (lucky for Putler) so I cannot directly come to Ukraine's aid.