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With a deal on the table, it's a race to hold as much territory before the armistice. To that regard, I've got to give the Russians credit. They take enormous personnel and material losses, mostly while utilizing obsolete and crap kit, but keep on taking new territory while managing to successfully hold a front that is almost two thousand Km long. We may think the Russian meat wave attacks ridiculous, but they get results. Of course Russia's demographics and economics have taken a critical and perhaps irreversible hit, but Putin doesn't care about that.So Ukraine thinks it may have a new peace proposal on the table, with at least some European nations involved in helping shape it:
Russia will need to focus on getting the nearby non-NATO countries back under its thumb. The Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Armenians and Moldovans are getting uppity, and then there's Kazakhstan blocking the Russian border crossings. Both Russia and its vulnerable neighbours now know that the USA (and NATO) will not intervene on their behalf, so Putin will begin eyeing regime change and invasions across its south.And while they're at it, better figure out which nation will be next - because it will happen.
Good points. Meanwhile the Ukrainian people will continue to thrive. As for territorial losses, it's only land if you can save the people. Roughly 25–30% of Germany's pre-WWI territory is no longer part of Germany in 2025, and that country is a powerhouse.I think that in some ways it's Russia who also has a lot to lose in a peace deal and I am not talking about the terms.
With a deal on the table, it's a race to hold as much territory before the armistice. To that regard, I've got to give the Russians credit. They take enormous personnel and material losses, mostly while utilizing obsolete and crap kit, but keep on taking new territory while managing to successfully hold a front that is almost two thousand Km long. We may think the Russian meat wave attacks ridiculous, but they get results. Of course Russia's demographics and economics have taken a critical and perhaps irreversible hit, but Putin doesn't care about that.
Good points. Meanwhile the Ukrainian people will continue to thrive. As for territorial losses, it's only land if you can save the people. Roughly 25–30% of Germany's pre-WWI territory is no longer part of Germany in 2025, and that country is a powerhouse.
| Metric | Germany | Russia |
| Area/Size | 357,588 km2 | 17,098,242 km2 |
| Population | Approximately 84 million | Approximately 144 million |
| Nominal GDP | $5.01 trillion | $2.54 trillion |
| Nominal GDP Per Capita | $59,930 | $17,450 |
Very well put. The challenge will be in rebuilding Ukraine, including reversing its population losses. Pre-war Ukraine, like all of Eastern Europe was already suffering from a demographic decline, with few women having babies. And now, an estimated five million of Ukraine's population has fled abroad, including a high % of women and children. Will these women and children voluntarily return to Ukraine? Those with fathers or husbands in Ukraine most likely, but IDK about the others. Here in Ontario, Canada there are thousands of Ukrainians refugees, and many have settled in nicely. My wife, a 3rd (and 4th) gen Ukrainian-Canadian tells me the newly arrived families were quickly embraced by the local Ukrainian diaspora, with help finding housing, jobs, etc. We don't give a toss for the Syrian and Sudanese refugees, but we're seemingly keeping our new Ukrainians. And then there's Ukraine's estimated eighty thousand KIA and over 140 thousand wounded fighting men that will need to be replaced and cared for. Lastly, there is the scourge of corruption that every country that escaped the USSR's shadow seems to struggle with.Land area may have meant something in the XIX century but certainly isn't relevant anymore. But, in some sense, Russia is still a XIX century country.
Metric Germany Russia Area/Size 357,588 km2 17,098,242 km2 Population Approximately 84 million Approximately 144 million Nominal GDP $5.01 trillion $2.54 trillion Nominal GDP Per Capita $59,930 $17,450
The situation in Ukraine is dramatic.Very well put. The challenge will be in rebuilding Ukraine, including reversing its population losses. Pre-war Ukraine, like all of Eastern Europe was already suffering from a demographic decline, with few women having babies. And now, an estimated five million of Ukraine's population has fled abroad, including a high % of women and children. Will these women and children voluntarily return to Ukraine? Those with fathers or husbands in Ukraine most likely, but IDK about the others. Here in Ontario, Canada there are thousands of Ukrainians refugees, and many have settled in nicely. My wife, a 3rd (and 4th) gen Ukrainian-Canadian tells me the newly arrived families were quickly embraced by the local Ukrainian diaspora, with help finding housing, jobs, etc. We don't give a toss for the Syrian and Sudanese refugees, but we're seemingly keeping our new Ukrainians. And then there's Ukraine's estimated eighty thousand KIA and over 140 thousand wounded fighting men that will need to be replaced and cared for. Lastly, there is the scourge of corruption that every country that escaped the USSR's shadow seems to struggle with.
There's more people living in Shanghai than all of Ukraine. Of course there are many countries with fewer people, but they'll need some serious manpower to rebuild. After WW2, Germany brought thousands of Turks as guest workers, who never left. Ideally Ukraine will offer a successful incentive for Ukrainians who fled abroad to return. Meanwhile...According to some estimates only 29 million live currently under Ukrainian controlled territory.