"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (19 Viewers)

[XBe02Drvr]

The only area that anyone can claim that Russia is acting significantly differently (for the most part) than the US (over the last 60 years) is in the direct targeting of Ukrainian civilian population centers and hence civilians - as a policy.

You mean the deliberate "dehousing" of German and Japanese defense workers by firestorm wasn't "a policy"? Maybe we should look back 80 years? I'm sure the rest of the world is.

 

[ThomasP]

I did say "over the las 60 years".

If we go back 80 years to 1943 WWII, the "terror bombing" er "morale reduction" er "dehousing" campaign was a war crime by today's standard, regardless of whether the country doing the bombing is a signatory (the US was not) to the Geneva Convention article that covers such things.

If we go back 72 years to Korea, again by today's standard the US committed war crimes when they bombed every village, town, and city that they could see from 20,000+ ft. The vast majority of the North Korean people in those population centers were agrarian or small town type shopkeepers and had no say in and nothing to do with the war.

Also see: "What does Japan do if War against USA/UK/DEI postponed to Spring 1942?"

 

[Admiral Beez]

Then there's the whole issue of Putin's perception of countries that supply arms to his enemy when they're in a declared war. I'm wondering if, by officially declaring war, Putin is seeking to take more active measures against arms shipments into Ukraine, for example before they even get into Ukraine itself.

Reminds me of Hitler declaring war against the US because they were supplying Britain. That worked out well.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You mean the deliberate "dehousing" of German and Japanese defense workers by firestorm wasn't "a policy"? Maybe we should look back 80 years? I'm sure the rest of the world is.

If you go back far enough every country has done bad stuff. Trick is we've for the most part the West understands what we did was wrong or unnecessary.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Reminds me of Hitler declaring war against the US because they were supplying Britain. That worked out well.

Bringing in Hitler IMO doesn't serve the purpose - since (Thank God) he did not posses nukes. Even if the USA would have had them at the same time - nutty/desperate Adolf would have used them against USA based targets, just to see if the USA (and especially it's government electors) would still be willing to support his enemies war-efforts.

 

[Jagdflieger]

The regular Russian Army had somewhere around 180,000 troops involved in the invasion.

Certainly not - more then 150,000 are Ukrainian/Russian irregulars that have been trained and equipped by Russia in the last 4-6 years. and these people are still being recruited and
even "forced" into the if you prefer the "Donbass/Donetsk volunteer territorial forces". This is also the reason why the Czar doesn't pay much attention to (Russian army committed war-crimes).
But since about 1 week he is bringing in stronger elements of the actual Russian army. To support approx. 30,000 Russian troops within Ukraine and another 50,000 assembling presently
to move into the Ukraine. The total Russian backup force is around 140,000 independed of those 150,000-200,000 irregulars operating within Russian controlled Ukraine territory and attacking Ukraine held positions.

 

[Snautzer01]

Certainly not - more then 150,000 are Ukrainian/Russian irregulars that have been trained and equipped by Russia in the last 4-6 years. and these people are still being recruited and
even "forced" into the if you prefer the "Donbass/Donetsk volunteer territorial forces". This is also the reason why the Czar doesn't pay much attention to (Russian army committed war-crimes).
But since about 1 week he is bringing in stronger elements of the actual Russian army. To support approx. 30,000 Russian troops within Ukraine and another 50,000 assembling presently
to move into the Ukraine. The total Russian backup force is around 140,000 independed of those 150,000-200,000 irregulars operating within Russian controlled Ukraine territory and attacking Ukraine held positions.

Source please.

 

[ThomasP]

As Snautzer01 says, source please?

US and UK intel has no indication of your assertion. Nor does the UAF. If you have any evidence of what you say, please send it to the US and UK intelligence agencies, and the the Ukrainians as well. I am sure thy would like to know that the majority of the soldiers they have been taking prisoner (in areas other than the Donetsk/Donbas/Luhansk regions) are really conscripted Ukrainians.

However, there is a report that Russia intends to begin conscripting Ukrainians from the newly occupied areas, and has done so in the past few years in Donetsk/Donbas/Luhansk. Is that what you are referring to? If so, those Ukrainians conscripted have been deployed in the occupied areas.

Also, are you confusing the term conscript with irregular?

 

[Jagdflieger]

Source please.

Common knowledge within NATO, or feel free to check the internet in timeline since 2014 for hopefully reliable information;
e.g. article from 2015!! "The joint army of the DNR and the LNR will be 100,000 men strong,"

 

[Jagdflieger]

As Snautzer01 says, source please?

US and UK intel has no indication of your assertion. Nor does the UAF. If you have any evidence of what you say, please send it to the US and UK intelligence agencies, and the the Ukrainians as well. I am sure thy would like to know that the majority of the soldiers they have been taking prisoner (in areas other than the Donetsk/Donbas/Luhansk regions) are really conscripted Ukrainians.

However, there is a report that Russia intends to begin conscripting Ukrainians from the newly occupied areas, and has done so in the past few years in Donetsk/Donbas/Luhansk. Is that what you are referring to? If so, those Ukrainians conscripted have been deployed in the occupied areas.

Also, are you confusing the term conscript with irregular?

Did the US, UK intel and UAF call on your expertise? or you just believe to know, because of what the media tells you?

 

[ThomasP]

Is this the article you are referring to?

"Ukraine rebels plan call-up, want 100,000-strong army"

And it seems to me that if it is common knowledge in NATO, and the US and UK are part of NATO, then it is very strange that they do not know that the majority of the troops invading Ukraine beginning in February are Ukrainian.

And it is very strange that Russia is not broadcasting to the world that the troops invading Ukraine (from inside Russia and Belarus) beginning in February are Ukrainians. That would be propaganda gold.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Is this the article you are referring to?

"Ukraine rebels plan call-up, want 100,000-strong army"

Can't open the link - one of those multiple information sources is from the English written newspaper The Moscow Times and such reports and alike are counter-checked and updated e.g. since 2014 by all military/intelligence related institutions, military attache departments or defense contractor/military advisory and security organizations - like the one I am working for since 2000.
Therefore I wouldn't post anything in that matter which isn't common/public knowledge within these circles.

 

[ThomasP]

And no, I do not just believe what the media tells me. India is not reporting that the invading force was composed mostly of Ukrainian conscripts. Nor are Israel, Germany, Norway, or France. Also maybe ask J_P_C and Dimlee.

 

[ThomasP]

The link is to Reuters website. The article was written and reported by Reuters staff from their Moscow office in February 2015.

 

[Jagdflieger]

View attachment 666326And no, I do not just believe what the media tells me. India is not reporting that the invading force was composed mostly of Ukrainian conscripts. Nor are Israel, Germany, Norway, or France. Also maybe ask J_P_C and Dimlee.

Why do you think Putin has declared this as a "special operation" and not as an official Russian war deceleration onto the Ukraine?
Furthermore why should Putin declare or explain the composition of the Russian and pro-Russian forces to the media?
Maybe NATO is fully aware about this and therefore is highly interested to get the Russian government/army fully committed towards the Ukraine and as such in return achieving........, ...,maybe?

 

[ThomasP]

?

None of what you just posted makes any sense.

Maybe NATO is aware and has joined together in a vast conspiracy (30 countries after all) to keep the knowledge from everyone, including their own governments to the point where it has not leaked - after almost 3 months? And talked countries like India and Israel into joining the conspiracy?

Maybe Putin is a space alien?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Some of this stuff is comedy gold.

 

[wlewisiii]

Long thread, good info. There's a good video down thread of some Ukrainian artillery.

 

[Glider]

Why do you think Putin has declared this as a "special operation" and not as an official Russian war deceleration onto the Ukraine?
Furthermore why should Putin declare or explain the composition of the Russian and pro-Russian forces to the media?
Maybe NATO is fully aware about this and therefore is highly interested to get the Russian government/army fully committed towards the Ukraine and as such in return achieving........, ...,maybe?

I know that it's Wiki but it goes into considerable detail about the actual units that formed the order of Battle for the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the chain of command

There are a lot of Guards units and air units which are elite units in the Russian military. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, does it mention any Ukraine based units.

Now if you have a better source that supports your bland statements about the forces that occupied the Ukraine only having a minority of Russian units I am confident that we will all be grateful and would appreciate your information.

Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

In other words, it's time to put up or shut up

 

[Jagdflieger]

?

None of what you just posted makes any sense.

Maybe NATO is aware and has joined together in a vast conspiracy (30 countries after all) to keep the knowledge from everyone, including their own governments to the point where it has not leaked - after almost 3 months? And talked countries like India and Israel into joining the conspiracy?

Maybe Putin is a space alien?

Whatever you want to believe - fine with me