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A tracked truck.
Those figures aren't really helpful - more kind of distorted - economic aid? military aid? a combination of both?Something I saw in an Australian news article which provides a partia, although useful snapshot of the amount of aid being provided:
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To me it is about what Ukraine really needs and is asking for - certainly not M113'sRight, as you pointed out upthread.
An M-113 won't strike fear into any heart, but the troops or guns it shuttles ... that could be another story. Working on interior lines, the Ukrainians could put these to good use.
Well an M113 is an APC and is used as such by numerous countries who don't face an artillery and armored opponent such as Russia. It isn't an AFV - but that is just what the UAF would need when conducting counterattacks.Calling an M113 an ARMORED Personnel Carrier is a bit of a stretch. At GE we were sent a couple VADS (Vulcan Air Defense Systems) that had been in Vietnam. The M113 chassis they were installed in had .50 cal and 12.7 MM holes right through the "armor" on one side, through the VADS magazine, and then out the other side. Side to side, and front to back, the rounds just went right through.
Armored? Not so much!
To me it is about what Ukraine really needs and is asking for - certainly not M113's
Instead of NATO blowing away $, give them the heavy stuff they are actually asking for, e.g. 300 M113's (2000 standard) cost around the same as 100 today's Bradley's.
Well an M113 is an APC and is used as such by numerous countries who don't face an artillery and armored opponent such as Russia. It isn't an AFV - but that is just what the UAF would need when conducting counterattacks.
If your troops are killed by artillery shrapnel/blast effects on the way to the battle they won't have the chance to be killed by shrapnel/blast effects/bullets/bayonets/etc during the battle.
If I understood you correctly; there are two groups:As an aside, I had been wondering how badly hurt were UAF supply chains. I know there were aviation losses from Russia's opening attacks. Did the UAF also suffer losses to their artillery regiments as well? Would their transport assets have been reduced as well? There's a lot of talk about these longer ranged towed howitzers. I was wondering what did the UAF get to tow them with? Then we start posting, among other things, all these M-113s. I thought that long range artillery wasn't towed directly up to enemy small arms range. I thought they'd be brought up to just out of Orc artillery range. Guess I was wrong. I wasn't positing the M-113 as a battle machine with anti aircraft guns/ anti aircraft missiles/ heavy machine guns/ air search radar/ etc bringing troops into battle. I just wondered if the damned things have a trailer hitch.
Not sure - but the jigs are all there to run up a production.Yeah, Bradleys would be better in this conflict by a long shot. Is the Bradley in any variant still in production?
In that case I would certainly prefer NATO 4x4 up to 8x8 APC/AFV - faster, far more agile, more modern and far more economic.It's the mobility it provides that might matter, weak as it is otherwise.
Not sure - but the jigs are all there to run up a production.
In that case I would certainly prefer NATO 4x4 up to 8x8 APC/AFV - faster, far more agile, more modern and far more economic.
At Least I'm Enjoyin' the Ride
Yeah, Bradleys would be better in this conflict by a long shot. Is the Bradley in any variant still in production?
It's the mobility it provides that might matter, weak as it is otherwise.
The Bradley might not be the best compared to e.g. Puma or the CV-90 - but only the US respectively the Bradley is available in numbers.The BFV is not that great either. It originally was built with poor aluminum armor. The BFV today has more protection added to it, which has weighted it down an made it very under-powered.