well just consider two facts like this - surprise HARM missile use by Ukrainians and that polish MiG-29s have been equipped with Israeli made mission computer as well MiLStd 1553B data bus wired hardpoints....
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well just consider two facts like this - surprise HARM missile use by Ukrainians and that polish MiG-29s have been equipped with Israeli made mission computer as well MiLStd 1553B data bus wired hardpoints....It's about context. The more capable the airframe, the longer the training time, generally. The West thought Ukraine would lose quickly, and so offers of help in aviation were not made, and the Polish thing got stymied early on too. I think they thought at this point that training Ukrainians to fly F-16s or Eurofighters did not have a realistic timeline.
Fast-forward a few months and we see the resistance holding, maybe now there's time to both train the pilots and refurb the donated aircraft.
In short, I think there's a little bit of hindsightium involved here. I sure didn't think Ukraine would last more than a week. But that was before we got this glimpse into the true status of the Russian military, If we'd known the Ukrainians would hold solid north of Kyev, an early training/supply program for the F-16 could have happened ... but of course we couldn't know that at that time.
I'm not so sure. We've already discussed how by mid-July the US had made no decision to supply F-16. Assuming a decision to go ahead on F-16s was finally made by late July or early August, the consensus here is that training plus logistics, parts and maintenance would take many months. As such the F-16 won't be in UAF service until we'll into spring/summer 2023.F-16s
i would say your proposal is controversional at least - you really would like to put Ukrainian pilots in LCA and send them in combat against VKS? over territorry densly occupied with all kinds of air defence? and what is the point sending them transport airplanes? you may not train pilots and maintainers with western made utility helicopters and then convert them in one simple move to F-16 riders - it does not working this way. Air Force it is pure logistic/ technology game - as you said, fighting pilot it is very important but just one of many components of this puzzle. Truly said im less worried how fast pilots adjust to western combat airplanes - i'm sure Ukrainians will send battle hardened guys for training and simulators perfectly speed up this process but maitenance staff is different story - to be generally profficient on this field 6 month of time is minimum and previous experience will help you just little.I'm not so sure. We've already discussed how by mid-July the US had made no decision to supply F-16. Assuming a decision to go ahead on F-16s was finally made by late July or early August, the consensus here is that training plus logistics, parts and maintenance would take many months. As such the F-16 won't be in UAF service until we'll into spring/summer 2023.
As such, I suggest the first manned Western-designed aircraft to enter UAF service are likely to be something simpler; perhaps LCAs, utility helicopters or transports.
I propose nothing. Instead I predict that we'll see other Western-designed aircraft enter UAF service before the F-16. I don't know if and do not propose that Ukraine fly its existing Albatros or other LCAs against the Russians; but it wouldn't surprise me, as you use what you've got. I also did not suggest converting rotary pilots into F-16 pilots, but only that Western-designed helicopters are more likely to arrive into UAF service earlier than the F-16.i would say your proposal is controversional at least - you really would like to put Ukrainian pilots in LCA and send them in combat against VKS?
I've worked on these - unless they are "ZA" models, the trainer versions have to be modified to carry weapons, not impossible but another issue. Additionally the trainer versions are not as robust as the ZA and may have structural issues with stores and heavy useage.Notwithstanding the incredible risks of taking it into combat, the Albatros does look good in UAF colours.
"Rumour intelligence " says that Ukrainian Air Force preferences today are either F-16 or Grippen. F-16 gets slightly more votes. Pros and cons are being discussed continuously. There is a growing "pro US lobby" whose main argument is that only USA industry can be a reliable supplier of the whole systems (and not just airborne) with training, spares, upgrades, etc - long term.What do we predict will be the first NATO or Western designed manned military aircraft supplied post invasion to be operated by the UAF? As I understand it, Ukraine hasn't received a single fixed wing or rotary aircraft, combat, transport or civilian from any NATO or Western countries since the invasion.
This link shows one aircraft from a now NATO member, the Aero L-39 Albatros. I assume these were provided to Ukraine before the Feb invasion.
View attachment 684283
That's it, not a single Western-designed aircraft of any sort yet provided.
In my search I had a look at Ukraine's civil airlines. This appeal from one to the West caught my eye, Flight booking, cheap airline tickets, cheap air flights - SkyUp Airlines.
we had the same discussion in Poland 10 years ago - but finally it comes to the point that US is making decision - Grippen is made with serious share US origin parts - if uncle Sam is interested in the deal Grippen is on loosing position - in one company i use to worked for such situation has been called "competition nice to have""Rumour intelligence " says that Ukrainian Air Force preferences today are either F-16 or Grippen. F-16 gets slightly more votes. Pros and cons are being discussed continuously. There is a growing "pro US lobby" whose main argument is that only USA industry can be a reliable supplier of the whole systems (and not just airborne) with training, spares, upgrades, etc - long term.
I was surprised that Brazil took the Gripen over a US model. I recall that the Snowden affair temporarily rattled US-Brazil relations and may have poisoned the US offering. But not sufficiently so for the US to block SAAB's tech transfer to Brazil.we had the same discussion in Poland 10 years ago - but finally it comes to the point that US is making decision - Grippen is made with serious share US origin parts - if uncle Sam is interested in the deal Grippen is on loosing position - in one company i use to worked for such situation has been called "competition nice to have"
An additional report from the Daily Telegraph. I do hope this is true, certainly something seems to be happeningZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine/KYIV, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Ukraine announced on Monday the start of a long-awaited counter-offensive to retake territory in the south seized by Russian forces since their invasion six months ago, a move reflecting Kyiv's growing confidence as Western military aid flows in.
[...]
"Today we started offensive actions in various directions, including in the Kherson region," Ukrainian public broadcaster Suspilne cited southern command spokeswoman Natalia Humeniuk as saying.
[...]
Ukraine has been using sophisticated Western-supplied weapons to hit Russian ammunition dumps and wreak havoc with supply lines. Humeniuk told a briefing on Monday that Ukraine had struck more than 10 such ammunition dumps in the past week, adding they had "unquestionably weakened the enemy".
She declined to give details of the counter-offensive, saying Russian forces in southern Ukraine remained "quite powerful".
Ukraine launches counter-offensive in south as Russia shells port city
Ukrainian troops bolstered by stepped-up Western military aid launched a long-awaited counter-offensive to retake territory in the south on Monday as Russian forces shelled residential areas of the Black Sea port city of Mykolaiv.www.reuters.com
Now we'll see how much of my post #9626 above comes to pass.
God speed Ukraine! I can only hope that the NATO-led supply chain is up to speed on the tens of thousands of artillery shells, rockets and small arms ammunition that will quickly be used at much higher rate. And that NATO recon satellites and SIGINT are in place. It's not going to be fun to be Russian general needing to use radio communications.An additional report from the Daily Telegraph. I do hope this is true, certainly something seems to be happening
The major operation appeared to start overnight with Himars strikes on Russian command centres and bridges, cutting off a supply of weapons and reinforcements to Russian forces in Kherson from occupied Crimea.
There were also unconfirmed reports that Ukraine's armed forces had used tanks, artillery and aviation to break through the first line of Russian defences near Kherson.
The Kakhovka group of Ukrainian soldiers claimed they had forced the 109th regiment of the so-called people's militia of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic from their defensive positions.
"In the Kherson region, Russian troops have moved away from their positions, paratroopers are fleeing the battlefield, " the Kakhovka Operational Group of Troops said in a Facebook post on Monday.
Footage shared online appeared to show stockpiles of ammunition at an abandoned Russian position in the Kherson Oblast.
According to early reports from the Odesa-based Dumskaya newspaper, Ukraine's armed forces liberated a number of settlements after launching their counter-offensive from the right bank of the Dnipro River.
Residents in the occupied town of Nova Kakhovka with Russian SIM cards were warned to evacuate the area by Kremlin-installed officials.
"An evacuation has been announced today during the day, the siren has been sounding most of the day. People have left their jobs, they are in bomb shelters," said the city's Russia-installed governor Vladimir Leontiev.
Could it be that's what Ukraine had been waiting for? I follow a YouTuber named Jake Broe, he covers investing and the Russian invasion of Ukraine as of late. He mentioned that new lists of equipment to be sent to Ukraine from the U.S. seem to be announced each week now.I can only hope that the NATO-led supply chain is up to speed on the tens of thousands of artillery shells, rockets and small arms ammunition that will quickly be used at much higher rate. And that NATO recon satellites and SIGINT are in place.
Apparently the Russians are fleeing from the Kherson front and the first line of defence has been breached. This is going to be like Battle of the Pelennor Fields.More on the reported Ukrainian breakthrough towards Kherson:
Kherson: Ukraine claims new push in Russian-held region
Ukraine is seeking to retake the southern Kherson region - but Russia says the offensive failed.www.bbc.com