"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)

Admiral Beez · Sep 25, 2022

Thumpalumpacus said:
Pretty sure they're also not happy about the Russians introducing referenda allowing for breakaway provinces to decide their own fate. That's the last thing China wants re: Taiwan.

Russia has/had something the West/Europe needed, cheap oil and gas. China doesn't have anything the West needs besides a source for cheap electronics and consumer goods. We can source that stuff anywhere. For example, Vietnam and Malaysia.

Vietnam likely to replace China as factory of the world in near future

As Omicron flare-ups in China's manufacturing hubs, like Guangdong Province and Shanghai, disrupted supply chains, Vietnam's Q1 economic figures appear to show promising outlook amid the pandemic

www.business-standard.com

Malaysia emerges as the biggest winner of the US-China semiconductor war

Malaysia has made a dark horse entry into the semiconductor industry. The country stands to benefit from the ongoing China-US trade war.

tfiglobalnews.com

Meanwhile China has a demographic timebomb and ponzi property market that will likely scupper the country. China uses the money they gain from selling us junk to build a massive military and expansionist foreign policy. Why would the West want to stay with that?

WARSPITER · Sep 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Meanwhile China has a demographic timebomb and ponzi property market that will likely scupper the country. China uses the money they gain from selling us junk to build a massive military and expansionist foreign policy. Why would the West want to stay with that?

It seems China is following in the footsteps of the USSR - a distinct lack of thought for future infrastructure / training (workforce)
coupled with far too much spending on their military. The last straw for the USSR was the so called Star Wars program which
they knew they could not match because of the economic drain. I still don't know if the Star Wars program was all a con anyway.

Thumpalumpacus · Sep 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Russia has/had something the West/Europe needed, cheap oil and gas. China doesn't have anything the West needs besides a source for cheap electronics and consumer goods. We can source that stuff anywhere. For example, Vietnam and Malaysia.

Vietnam likely to replace China as factory of the world in near future

As Omicron flare-ups in China's manufacturing hubs, like Guangdong Province and Shanghai, disrupted supply chains, Vietnam's Q1 economic figures appear to show promising outlook amid the pandemic

www.business-standard.com

Malaysia emerges as the biggest winner of the US-China semiconductor war

Malaysia has made a dark horse entry into the semiconductor industry. The country stands to benefit from the ongoing China-US trade war.

tfiglobalnews.com

Meanwhile China has a demographic timebomb and ponzi property market that will likely scupper the country. China uses the money they gain from selling us junk to build a massive military and expansionist foreign policy. Why would the West want to stay with that?

Of course China is already somewhat isolated, and of course that will only worsen after an invasion of Taiwan. But my point is that China is already irritated that Russia's invasion has brought such concerns front and center -- and impelled China to commit to statements which can later be thrown back in its face.

GrauGeist · Sep 25, 2022

Might want to point out that Communist China doesn't wish to take back Taiwan.

The Communists aim to finish their conquest of China - Taiwan is all that remains of the original Republic of China government since 1949.

Admiral Beez · Sep 25, 2022

Sigh, still no Leopard 2 tanks for Ukraine.

Germany's Chancellor Has 'a Lot' for Ukraine. But No Battle Tanks.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Sigh, still no Leopard 2 tanks for Ukraine.

Germany's Chancellor Has 'a Lot' for Ukraine. But No Battle Tanks.

Well maybe Canada should send theirs until Germany get's their shit together.

GrauGeist · Sep 25, 2022

Does Germany retain the right to decide on Canadian Leopard disposition like they do on European based Leopards?

fubar57 · Sep 25, 2022

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-weapons-supply-lines-expanded-1.6594582

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Sigh, still no Leopard 2 tanks for Ukraine.

Germany's Chancellor Has 'a Lot' for Ukraine. But No Battle Tanks.

In Germany's defence, I don't see the USA offering Abrams, or the UK Challenger 2s, or France Leclercs, or Italy Arietes or even any of the export operators of any of these offering them.

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

Vladimir Putin's mobilisation plan backfires as analysts pinpoint flaws in desperate move

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

Winter's approach sets clock ticking for Ukraine and Russia

The onset of autumnal weather, with rains making fields too muddy for tanks, is beginning to cloud Ukraine's efforts to take back more Russian-held territory before winter freezes the battlefields, a Washington-based think tank says.

www.abc.net.au

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

Russia is holding referendums to claim more parts of Ukraine. The West says they are illegal shams — here's why

Mirroring Russia's earlier land grabs in Crimea, the referendums to annex parts of Ukraine are a violation of international law that represent a significant escalation in Moscow's war, according to the West.

www.abc.net.au

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

The dolphins of Kharkiv are getting used to the sounds of war

Evacuating the five mammals from the local aquarium is almost impossible now — the belugas are too big, and the youngest dolphin is only six months old and still needs to be fed every 15 minutes or so.

www.abc.net.au

Escuadrilla Azul · Sep 25, 2022

GTX said:
In Germany's defence, I don't see the USA offering Abrams, or France Leclercs or Italy Arietes or even any of the export operators of any of these offering them.

True.

But no one else is promising that much and then holding or delating so much.

Admiral Beez · Sep 25, 2022

GTX said:
In Germany's defence, I don't see the USA offering Abrams, or France Leclercs or Italy Arietes or even any of the export operators of any of these offering them.

I thinks it's Germany's apparent blocking other countries' offering their Leopard 2 tanks that's more annoying. Germany could have facilitated the restoration of Spain's proffered Leo2s, for example.

defenceview.in

This domain may be for sale!

www.defenceview.in

Swiss say Germany can freely dispose of Leopard 2 tanks sold back to Rheinmetall

Switzerland's defence procurement office said on Friday it had given the go-ahead for Germany to freely dispose of Leopard 2 tanks previously sold back to defence group Rheinmetall.

www.reuters.com

I recall that Poland considered donating its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine as their Abrams began arriving, but again Germany apparently refuses to support the move.

Pentagon Explained When Ukraine Will Receive Western Abrams and Leopard 2 Tanks | Defense Express

The supply of main battle tanks and IFVs to Ukraine by allies is one of the key factors in the issue of rearmament of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

en.defence-ua.com

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

GTX · Sep 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
I thinks it's Germany's apparent blocking other countries' offering their Leopard 2 tanks that's more annoying. Germany could have facilitated the restoration of Spain's proffered Leo2s, for example.

defenceview.in

This domain may be for sale!

www.defenceview.in

I recall that Poland considered donating its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine as their Abrams began arriving, but again Germany apparently refuses to support the move.

Pentagon Explained When Ukraine Will Receive Western Abrams and Leopard 2 Tanks | Defense Express

The supply of main battle tanks and IFVs to Ukraine by allies is one of the key factors in the issue of rearmament of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

en.defence-ua.com

Indirectly they are assisting tanks to get there:

Germany, Slovakia sign tank swap deal to arm Ukraine

Older Leopard 2 tanks will backfill a batch of Soviet infantry fighting vehicles that Slovakia is sending to Ukraine.

www.defensenews.com

I suspect part of the reason why no-one is supplying western tanks is two-fold:

Ex-Russian tanks (be they T-72s or otherwise0 are already in service in Ukraine and thus logistics/sustainment, ammunition and crew training is already available - something that would be needed for newer types (remember that a tank is not like a car where you just throw someone the keys...); and
Whereas plenty of munitions are being supplied, something like a tank, especially if one is knocked out by the Russians and photographed is a pretty powerful image and one that could conceivably play into Russian propaganda re 'NATO's war on Russia'/damage Western support & resolve ("Whoa...Russia just knocked out one of our tanks...maybe they are stronger than we thought..."

SaparotRob · Sep 25, 2022

The thing about the Abrams is logistical support. Unless we're using them as pillboxes.

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