"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (10 Viewers)

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Now I understand...Russia didn't attack civilian Ukrainian targets. Rather, it was the fault of Ukrainian missile defences that caused civilian targets to be hit. Once again, how DARE those dastardly Ukrainians have the temerity to defend themselves.

A Russian MP and state television presenter has claimed Russia did not target civilian infrastructure in Ukraine, following an apparent ramp up in attacks across the country, including in the capital Kyiv today.

"Our military is not attacking, is not shelling cities and civilian infrastructure. All our missiles was targeted [at] energy infrastructure, communication centres and military headquarters," Evgeny Popov told BBC Radio 4's World at One programme.

He blamed Ukrainian anti-missile systems for strikes on civilian targets, including a children's playground.

"If you see some missiles and blows on children grounds, it was a result of the work of anti-missile system, Ukrainian system," he said.


We are definitely in "1984" Ministry of Truth territory.
 

The audio in that video identifies the system as the 9K331M, that is the Tor-M1. This was introduced in 1991. While certainly a very good system, and undoubtedly continually updated, it is not an "ultimate hardware", and people have been studying it a long time.

Yes, I am sure there has been some good intel gleaned in this conflict, probably enough to keep certain alphabet agencies busy for years, however I have not seen many examples of really new systems being captured. I don't think I have seen OSINT images of anything like an S-350/400/500 being captured (unless I missed them, quite possible). There have been a few interesting captured things showing up in online images, like the R381T Taran-M system and the 1L269 Krasukha-2 systems, but I suspect both of those had been accessed before (for example, the Taran goes back to the Cold War, and I believe Libya had / has the Krasukha-2). And some sources made a lot of noise about the Ka-52 shoot downs (what is it 6 or 7 now in Ukraine?), but it is important to remember that has been in production for 14 years, I don't know if any of those were updated to Ka-52M specs or not.

T!
 
Germany to send IRIS-T SAMs to Ukraine:

Germany to send Ukraine much wanted air defence systems
Chris Partridge
BBC News
In Germany, officials say they're planning to send Ukraine new air defence systems.
Known as IRIS-T SLMs, they're used to "protect the population, important buildings, objects as well as ground troops against attacks from the air", according to Diehl BGT Defence, their manufacturer.
This is exactly the sort of system Ukraine has been asking for since the beginning of this conflict.
The system uses GPS and INS navigation, and receives frequent target positional data from its base station, guiding it towards the threat.
It also has an infra-red seeker as an additional feature and is effective against helicopters, aircraft, cruise missiles, air-to-surface weapons and anti-ship weapons. Crucial to all this is how many will be delivered - and when. It's all part of the gradual Westernisation of Ukraine's armed forces, following Russia's invasion in February.
Currently, Ukraine has Soviet-era surface-to-air (SAM) systems, comprising S-300 for long-range and Buk-M1 SAMs for shorter range. The German system would be a significant upgrade.
The US has provided the greatest amount of weaponry so far - totalling more than $17bn (£15bn), while the UK has supplied the country with the Starstreak anti-aircraft missile system, and other systems, as part of an assistance package worth £2.3bn.
 
Token said:
I have not seen many examples of really new systems being captured
Click to expand...

Pride of Russian army fell into hands of Ukrainian Soldiers

Pride of the Russian Armed Forces, a fully intact example of Russia’s T-90M tank has been captured by Ukrainian Soldiers in the Kharkiv region. Pictures of the abandoned Russian T-90M tank began circulating on social media last week. Multiple photos of the exterior and interior of the secret...
defence-blog.com
 

And the T-90M is one of the reasons I said "I have not seen many examples of really new systems being captured" vs "I have not seen any".

T!
 
Snautzer01 said:
Could you plse give a link to that article.
Click to expand...
I am afraid not. However, some of the key points in the article are as follows:-

Two operational headquarters are being set up one in Poland and one in Germany and will be co ordinated with the programmes currently being run by the UK. To get these formally set up is supposed to take 2 years but the initial training can start quickly once the politico's sign it off on the 17th October

The total numbers being targeted are 25,000 including the 10,000 being trained in the UK. The UK effort includes Dane's, Dutch, Finns, Lithuanians and Swedish personnel.

Poland will focus on Air Defence, Artillery, cyber, chemical, biological and nuclear defence. Germany will concentrate on mine clearance and tactical training on a larger scale than those in the UK and Poland, with combat simulation facilities.

Germany originally blocked the setting up of this type of training in Poland but has now altered its view and are getting involved in a serious degree

To date the UK have already trained 22,000 troops and another 10,000 will have been trained by the end of the year, with the help of the Dutch, Baltic and Nordic countries.

During the summer the French ruled out any involvement in large scale training and it is not clear what role the French will play in the new mission.

This still falls short of what the Ukraine have asked for in the training which is for up to nine brigades totalling approx. 45,000 people.

A small but interesting point. When the soldiers are finished training in the UK they go back to Ukraine fully equipped with everything they need, Helmets, body armour, winter clothing, sleeping bags, backpacks, etc, everything, apart from the infantry weapons, which are left behind to train the next set of soldiers. Such is the pressure to get things moving, video's show some of the Ukraine infantry using SA80's during training, due to a shortage of AK's, but I have no doubt these get left behind when they finish.
I do sometimes wonder what they think of the SA80 when they have to go back to the AK47
 
GrauGeist shared a T-90 but there are other examples:

Ukraine Just Captured Another Rare Russian Electronic Warfare Vehicle

The vehicle from the Taran-M signals intelligence, or SIGINT, system was captured after the rout of Russian forces in the Kharkiv region.
www.thedrive.com

One Of Russia’s Newest Air Defense Systems Has Been Captured In Ukraine

Ukrainian and foreign intelligence agencies could glean much from captured Russian Barnaul-T air defense radar and command post vehicles.
www.thedrive.com
 
This is an entirely plausible argument.
So is, "Look, we're just really bad shots."
Colatteral damage is an unfortunate reality of war.
 
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