"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (96 Viewers)

[WARSPITER]

I forgot to add that that was just my own opinion.

You don't have to. It is also a really good summation of how perceptions can take an objective argument and make it into a subjective one.
Even proven science can be discounted in favour of what is perceived to be correct. A good example is stomach ulcers. Even though
researchers proved that they are caused by a virus (I think) they were poo pooed by the psych industry as for over half a century there
had been a great little earner going in the stress causes ulcers field. It took one of the researchers to actually infect himself to bring on a stomach
ulcer before the majority would listen.

Russian propaganda regarding Ukraine is now at the stage where the definition of truth is being confused with the definition of ludicrous.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

You don't have to. It is also a really good summation of how perceptions can take an objective argument and make it into a subjective one.
Even proven science can be discounted in favour of what is perceived to be correct. A good example is stomach ulcers. Even though
researchers proved that they are caused by a virus (I think) they were poo pooed by the psych industry as for over half a century there
had been a great little earner going in the stress causes ulcers field. It took one of the researchers to actually infect himself to bring on a stomach
ulcer before the majority would listen.

Russian propaganda regarding Ukraine is now at the stage where the definition of truth is being confused with the definition of ludicrous.

Put shortly, the world exists outside and apart from us, but what we sense, know, or understand of the world exists only between our ears.

As Frank Herbert wrote in his classic Dune: "Think you of the fact that a deaf person cannot hear. Then, what deafness may we not all possess? What senses do we lack that we cannot see and cannot hear another world all around us?"

Reality is firm, but so are the limits on knowledge. The wise man understands that what he thinks is true may only be a miniscule representation of what actually is.

I think I've had enough beer for tonight.

 

[buffnut453]

Hope this reporting is accurate:

Russian forces leave checkpoints in Chornobaivka, several other settlements in Kherson region

Russian invaders have left checkpoints in Chornobaivka, Stepanivka and Bilozerka in the Kherson region, with the number of Russian military personnel falling in Kherson. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

 

[buffnut453]

Hope this isn't true:

Retreat or a trap? Russia signals a surprise withdrawal from a key city, but Ukrainians are wary

“To me, the preponderance of evidence points to a Russian decision to steadily retreat from the right river bank and avoid being cut off there,” one expert said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hope this reporting is accurate:

Russian forces leave checkpoints in Chornobaivka, several other settlements in Kherson region

Russian invaders have left checkpoints in Chornobaivka, Stepanivka and Bilozerka in the Kherson region, with the number of Russian military personnel falling in Kherson. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

I wonder if the silence of the last week or so is both sides fighting to limit the information-space around this battle? The Russians clearly wouldn't want to admit a defeat, and the Ukrainians have a vested interest in closing down speculation?

I sure hope this is true. As I wrote above, abandoning Kherson relieves some pressure from Odessa.

It'd be a real shame if the Russians found a Ukrainian brigade or two raiding behind Sevastopol.

 

[at6]

With Putin constantly talking about nuclear war he is beginning sound more like Hitler every day. Hide in a bunker while your nation is being destroyed because they "don't deserve you" and should die with you.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Hope this isn't true:

Retreat or a trap? Russia signals a surprise withdrawal from a key city, but Ukrainians are wary

“To me, the preponderance of evidence points to a Russian decision to steadily retreat from the right river bank and avoid being cut off there,” one expert said.

www.nbcnews.com

The Russians haven't done anything smartly in this war. I think they are setting what they believe is a trap in Kherson, but the AFU aren't stupid. If there is a large Russian force dug in, now that the civilian population has mostly fled, Kherson will be surrounded and cut off, leaving a huge number of Russian troops hungry and idle in Kherson whilst the AFU make a straight run for Crimea.

If Kherson is a trap, it's for the Russians. But credible media suggests the Russians are running.

Russia’s Army Keeps Collapsing After Falling Back in Kherson

Ukraine has made huge inroads in the south and east.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[buffnut453]

This is worth a read. Also recommend watching the video clip of Jeremy Bowen who provides interesting insights into the challenges of being a reporter in the middle of a war:

Russia-Ukraine war: At the front line of Ukraine's struggle for Kherson

Jeremy Bowen reports on the fight for a city that Kyiv is desperate to recapture from Russia's army.

www.bbc.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

probably one of the finest artillery units in the world in action

They do look impressive.

Ukraine Says Received ‘World’s Best’ 155mm Cutting-Edge, Self-Propelled Artillery ‘Archer’ From Sweden

Ukraine has received Archer 'World's Best' 155mm Archer Cutting-Edge Self-Propelled Artillery from Sweden amid bombardment from Russia

eurasiantimes.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Vampire looks cool. Though delivery sometime in 2023 is a disappointment.

VAMPIREs in Ukraine: L3's New Rocket System

The Ukrainian battlefields will soon be the proving ground for L3’s new VAMPIRE rocket system designed to mount to any truck with a flatbed.

greydynamics.com

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Not if it's true.

Actually:
If its true is propaganda.
If not, it's fake propaganda.

 

[Glider]

Actually:
If its true is propaganda.
If not, it's fake propaganda.

Where soes 'Alternative Facts' fit into this?

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Anyone has seen another source of this?
If true, considering the range and payload of storm shadow, ATACMS would not be an escalation anymore. More like a de-escalation

Storm Shadow deep strike missile on Ukrainian supersonic Fencer

Poland is the integrator country that has undertaken the mission to field the Storm Shadow long-range, conventionally armed, deep-strike missile, known as SCALP

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[pbehn]

Where soes 'Alternative Facts' fit into this?

On the shelf below "Known unknowns" and next to "Unknown unknowns"

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Actually:
If its true is propaganda.
If not, it's fake propaganda.

Or as others call it "Alternative Facts"

 

[SaparotRob]

Where soes 'Alternative Facts' fit into this?

There's so many to choose from. I prefer It's aliens operating out of the Antarctic. By the great big wall that BiffF15 and FlyboyJ will swear aren't there.
They're in on it.

 

[manta22]

Actually:
If its true is propaganda.
If not, it's fake propaganda.

Truth is truth but truth can also be used for propaganda purposes.

 

[SaparotRob]

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Actually:
If its true is propaganda.
If not, it's fake propaganda.

I keep skipping ahead in this thread to get past the propaganda debate. Does anyone actually care if Ukraine espouses a little self aggrandizement, exaggerated or otherwise? All I care is that they're kicking Russian ass.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I keep skipping ahead in this thread to get past the propaganda debate.