"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (5 Viewers)

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Dollars be damned. Some fights cost money, but the refusal to pitch in -- on either side of the Atlantic -- is still playing a losing hand. I won't criticize Europeans when my own country is half-assing this due to, well, Reasons®.

Defeating Russia in their invasion is not a penny-counting exercise. It has much wider ramifications. I'm good with some of my taxes being spent to make sure that this war doesn't widen. I don't mind at all supporting financially the ability of Ukrainians to defend themselves.
 
ThomasP said:
Again, with the intent to help with accuracy, and not to be political.

re


From the start of the Ukraine war on 24 February 2022 to 31 October 2023, the US has committed ~44 billion Euro of military aid for Ukraine, while NATO (not including the US) - with a GDP 72% that of the US - has committed over ~47 billion Euro of military aid for Ukraine.

The above is the last date that I have specific figures for.

If you want to know the total amount spent on Ukraine by the US as of 1 February 2024 - including non-military aid - it comes to about $75 billion. I do not have current figures re none-military aid for the rest of NATO.

Maybe someone else has more up to date & comprehensive numbers?

FWIW the current 15 February 2024 amount being quoted re the amount of military aid committed by NATO - not including the US - is equal to about $55 billion US. This is the latest amount I have heard presented by the DOD and was the amount quoted by Senator McConnell yesterday. McConnell is a current member of the Senate Defense Appropriations Subcommittee.
Click to expand...

Also note that Western Europe took in the vast majority of refugees escaping from Ukraine. That didn't happen at no cost.
 
Good sign if true, even better if near Avdiivka as they plagued them with gliding bombs
mstdn.social

NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image 🧐Air Force commander Mykola Oleschuk reports that on the morning of February 17, 2024, in the Eastern direction, units of the Ukrainian Air Force destroyed three Russian aircraft at once. Namely two Su-34 and one Su-35.
mstdn.social mstdn.social
 
Western Europe is also benefitting from Ukrainians as they are employable.

My post was not to say that the US should not support Ukraine. Far from it.

The point was that the EU countries as a group are a big player. The contribution over
time has not been what it should be and if it had been they would have been able
to supply Ukraine with twice as much as they have.

NATO asks for each member to devote 2% or more to military spending.

Germany from 2000 to 2020 - 1.07 to 1.39.
France from 2000 to 2020 - 1.04 to to 1.9 with three years at 2 to 2+.

Interestingly, Britain from 2000 to 2020. Four years at around 1.95 and the rest at 2+ with
ten years at 2.4 and above. Part of the reason Brexit got through.
 
buffnut453 said:
Also note that Western Europe took in the vast majority of refugees escaping from Ukraine. That didn't happen at no cost.
Click to expand...
Somethng that often forgotten when about countries, Canada included, not paying their dues to NATO. Since March of 2022, Canada has taken in almost a quarter of a million Ukrainian refugees. The only country with more Ukrainians (and this was true before the war) is Ukraine itself. All told 936,293 temporary emergency visas have been issued to Ukrainians in that time period.
 
WARSPITER said:
Western Europe is also benefitting from Ukrainians as they are employable.

My post was not to say that the US should not support Ukraine. Far from it.

The point was that the EU countries as a group are a big player. The contribution over
time has not been what it should be and if it had been they would have been able
to supply Ukraine with twice as much as they have.

NATO asks for each member to devote 2% or more to military spending.

Germany from 2000 to 2020 - 1.07 to 1.39.
France from 2000 to 2020 - 1.04 to to 1.9 with three years at 2 to 2+.

Interestingly, Britain from 2000 to 2020. Four years at around 1.95 and the rest at 2+ with
ten years at 2.4 and above. Part of the reason Brexit got through.
Click to expand...
While not disagreeing with your post you are aware that France has not been a full NATO member sense the 1950's.
They do contribute to the defense of western Europe, but IMO they should not be held to the same spending comparisons of a full NATO member.
Just my opinion others may vary.
 
cammerjeff said:
While not disagreeing with your post you are aware that France has not been a full NATO member sense the 1950's.
They do contribute to the defense of western Europe, but IMO they should not be held to the same spending comparisons of a full NATO member.
Just my opinion others may vary.
Click to expand...
No that's fair, after all, you have to deduct the value of any Citroens sent as they are more of a negative.
 
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