GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Now, now...I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
It's all very straight-forward...
Alternatives to the historical P-38 Lightning?
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
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It's all very straight-forward...
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
What da’ heck izzat?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
lmao...
This is the cockpit of the deadliest fighter in WWI.
Just look at all that complex hodaddery the pilot had to fool with just in order to go-a-killin'
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I thought it was an old washing machine.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Are you sitting, Dave? That was my guess. Fokker Eindekker?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
special ed
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,582
- May 13, 2018
One alternative was Howard Hughes' D-2. It was a wooden twin boom fighter that the USAAC wouldn't look at and Hughes claimed Lockheed stole the idea. Very few photos remain as Hughes was angry about the situation and the plane was destroyed in mysterious hangar fire in the desert. His later XF-11 was a larger version of the design.
The four engined aircraft had a hand pump and a flight engineer to provide hydraulic system redundancy.
- Thread starter
- #91
Welcome to the asylum
Alternative early YP-38 that never existed. Still with the big spinner in front of the R-2600; two 23mm Madsen cannons and two HMGs. 275 sq ft wing area.
Cooling problems led to the replacement of the big spinner with smaller one, armament was changed to 6 .50 BMGs in late 1940 for the series production. The P-38A (early 1941) was powered by the R-2600-9 engine (in conjunction with turbo), de-rated to 2500 rpm and 1600 HP (instead of 2600 HP and 1700 HP as on the B-25) to keep the head temperature in check even on summer. 300 gals of fuel, with P-38B the s-s tanks reduced the fuel load to 250 gals. Capable for a tad over 390 mph at 25000 ft.
The hand pump was to pressurise the system when the engine wasn't working. Lots of post-war aircraft had this, the C-130, the Dash 8, but most big airliners have multiple redundancy with hydraulic pumps and standby hydraulic pumps not connected to the engines to offer system redundancy in case of engine failure. The Flight Engineer is gonna be able to notice when pressure fails, but other than operate the pump to get flaps and gear down, he's not gonna be able to do much else.
Double
- Thread starter
- #95
A no-nonsense fighter with two non-turbo* V-1710s in 'classic' layout (ie. along the lines of Whirlwind, Type 327, Fw-187 and later DH Hornet) might've been a valuable asset. We'd probably have 370+ mph at 15000 ft even with the -33 engines if the aircraft's size is kept modest, at least when looking at what Ro.58 or Whirly were capable for.
(P-38D and E were doing ~375 mph, but at 20000 ft)
*yes, USAAC/AAF was hell bent on the idea that new fighters have to have turbochargers
The thing that is tantalizing about the Supermarine design is the twin merlin power plants. To me, it looks like the Hornet, just a few years sooner.
Cool design, Tomo! A few little things I noticed are the use of the actual P-38 canopy shape but changed to a sliding (or is it side-hinged?) three-piece affair. Also, it appears you used Republic wings--I wonder if adapting the 23016-to-4412 trapezoidal wings as used on the real P-38 would be more fitting? Johnson was the primary wing-designer for Lockheed by this time which is why you see variations of the same (or at least similar) wings on the L-10/12 Electras, the L-14 Hudson, the L-22 Atalanta (XP-38), the paper-only L-133, and even the early XP-80 if memory serves.Welcome to the asylum
View attachment 658986
Alternative early YP-38 that never existed. Still with the big spinner in front of the R-2600; two 23mm Madsen cannons and two HMGs. 275 sq ft wing area.
Cooling problems led to the replacement of the big spinner with smaller one, armament was changed to 6 .50 BMGs in late 1940 for the series production. The P-38A (early 1941) was powered by the R-2600-9 engine (in conjunction with turbo), de-rated to 2500 rpm and 1600 HP (instead of 2600 HP and 1700 HP as on the B-25) to keep the head temperature in check even on summer. 300 gals of fuel, with P-38B the s-s tanks reduced the fuel load to 250 gals. Capable for a tad over 390 mph at 25000 ft.
- Thread starter
- #98
Lockheed will certainly use an 'open-source' airfoil, not the S-3. Canopy is kinda 'let's make a better canopy than what US fighters of the time had, but still not a proper bubble canopy from the future' idea.
Here's my attempt. Although the trouble is that CP.608 specifically called for a Twin-Engine interceptor so this would have to be in response to 609 (which led to the P-39). The other roadblock I'm running into is getting the proper armament fitted. I just can't find a way to fit 20mms much less a 37mm. The R-2600 was never built for a motor-cannon through the hub (that I'm aware of) and the 37mm cannot be synchronized so the wing roots are out.
Anyway, a few notes here. The general shape was inspired by the contours of the Lockheed Altair. The vertical tail and wings are both adapted from the real P-38 with some scaling and contour changes. I used
tomo pauk
's concept for the canopy took the P-38 greenhouse and made it a three-piece. I wanted to "Lockheed-ize" the turbo installation, so I have it up front and intercooling is handled by an experimental annular duct around the front of the engine cowl (whereas in the P-38 they instead ran them along the outer-wing leading edges). Also, like they tried with the XP-38, I put a housing around the exposed portion of the turbo. This means there has to be a slight bulge in the lower cowl to accommodate the ducting. The cowl flap is a single "horse collar" which slides back to close and forward to open. This will probably end up being changed in development to standard Cowl Flaps (unless it actually works...who knows?) The oil coolers are in the wing roots and vent out the lower filleting. This means the main gear fold in-and-back (I didn't fully model the gear doors or placement, I'd need 3D to fully figure that one out).
Due to the nose-heavy balance of the design, the horizontal stabilizers are installed at a slight negative incidence, although I just sketched them roughly instead of figuring out how to properly balance it. I would think in testing they would discover the need to increase the vertical tail area as well and likely increase the dorsal filleting. Currently only installed with 4 x M2 .50 cal MGs but with a little time to design proper wings for it we could probably get it up to 6 (or 4 Hispanos).
Length: 34' 7"
Wingspan: approx. 38' (I haven't drawn front or planform yet)
Height: 10' 4" (not including prop)
Max Speed: c.400 mph
So, here it is:
Anyway, a few notes here. The general shape was inspired by the contours of the Lockheed Altair. The vertical tail and wings are both adapted from the real P-38 with some scaling and contour changes. I used
tomo pauk
's concept for the canopy took the P-38 greenhouse and made it a three-piece. I wanted to "Lockheed-ize" the turbo installation, so I have it up front and intercooling is handled by an experimental annular duct around the front of the engine cowl (whereas in the P-38 they instead ran them along the outer-wing leading edges). Also, like they tried with the XP-38, I put a housing around the exposed portion of the turbo. This means there has to be a slight bulge in the lower cowl to accommodate the ducting. The cowl flap is a single "horse collar" which slides back to close and forward to open. This will probably end up being changed in development to standard Cowl Flaps (unless it actually works...who knows?) The oil coolers are in the wing roots and vent out the lower filleting. This means the main gear fold in-and-back (I didn't fully model the gear doors or placement, I'd need 3D to fully figure that one out).Due to the nose-heavy balance of the design, the horizontal stabilizers are installed at a slight negative incidence, although I just sketched them roughly instead of figuring out how to properly balance it. I would think in testing they would discover the need to increase the vertical tail area as well and likely increase the dorsal filleting. Currently only installed with 4 x M2 .50 cal MGs but with a little time to design proper wings for it we could probably get it up to 6 (or 4 Hispanos).
Length: 34' 7"
Wingspan: approx. 38' (I haven't drawn front or planform yet)
Height: 10' 4" (not including prop)
Max Speed: c.400 mph
So, here it is:
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
So basically, we're reinventing the P-47
