SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I know. I tried looking them up once after reading the reviews here.
Another 'Gem' from Greg - just released.
- Thread starter drgondog
- Start date
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
- Thread starter
- #24
drgondog
Major
I just looked again and see that you are correct.
I did reply to Greg's "thank you for mentioning me (Greg)" comment. One of the many things I said to Greg (and Caliban) on Caliban's thread was 'have you considered' that both you and Caliban went into detailed calc for P-47D combat radius- but I never saw how you represented the requirements to stay attached to a Bomber box at the same 'block' airspeed of 150mph IAS at 25000 feet - by Essing over the formation"?
I just sent Caliban an email- will be curious how (if) he replies. I have found him to be a far better listener than Greg.
He better be
Caliban seems to expect the P-47 will use 150 US gals of fuel to climb to 25000 ft, covering some 123 miles, and apparently it will use 45 gallons 'just for take off from the ground'. Internal fuel is strictly 305 gals for the P-47 per him, and it was always able to carry crop tanks, for total of 721 gals. Apparently the 200 gal belly tank was standard on the 47s.
P-51 was strictly with 245.4 gals of internal fuel - no ifs, no buts per Caliban.P-51 will be also doing 557 mph (!!!) worth of ground speed, with 11.3 mpg - bonkers. Apparently, on later P-51s the drop tanks fed into fuselage tank.
(video I'm talking about)
tl;dr - he managed to spell even more disinformation than Gerg in his P-47 range video
Uh-oh, per Caliban, seems like XP-38 was doing 420 mph during the trans-USA long-range record attempt, and DH Albatros was a twin-engined design. Also, speed relies directly on overcoming of weight by thrust.
Cringe.
Cringe.
- Thread starter
- #27
drgondog
Major
Tomo - I did't even bother to comment on those points but you nailed it. The usable fuel was 180/184 + 85 when topped off.He better be
Caliban seems to expect the P-47 will use 150 US gals of fuel to climb to 25000 ft, covering some 123 miles, and apparently it will use 45 gallons 'just for take off from the ground'. Internal fuel is strictly 305 gals for the P-47 per him, and it was always able to carry crop tanks, for total of 721 gals. Apparently the 200 gal belly tank was standard on the 47s.
P-51 was strictly with 245.4 gals of internal fuel - no ifs, no buts per Caliban.P-51 will be also doing 557 mph (!!!) worth of ground speed, with 11.3 mpg - bonkers. Apparently, on later P-51s the drop tanks fed into fuselage tank.
(video I'm talking about)
tl;dr - he managed to spell even more disinformation than Gerg in his P-47 range video
Kartveli only built a few of the 205gal 'tub' ferry tanks but IIRC they were only used for three or four missions before the new 75gal combat tank arrived in quantity - and were used exclusively for August 17th Schweinfurt-Regenburg mission. Further, they were superior in that they functioned at 25K and the P-47 cruised 30-40mph faster (anecdotally as I have not seen the flight test data for the 205gal tank with the 'fin' modification).
The biggest face palm for both Caliban and Greg in the 'calculated' combat radius 'proofs' was the simple fact that a.) the P-47 escort had to mainain combat cruise in the 220mph IAS range WHILE Essing across the bomber box, so during escort their average mpg was lower along the straight line heading of the much slower bombers.
I know you get it but some may not quite understand the point so for the few
Imagine a 10 foot garden hose in a straight line representing 100 miles of escorted travel - laying on the ground.
Lay a 15 foot garden hose weaving from side to side over the 10 foot hose - terminating with the 10 foot hose.
The P-47 travels the 15 feet at cruise settings but only covers 10 feet of ground in the same time.
Had either noticed that point about ETO ops, they might not have devoted so mch time to wander down a dead ened road.
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Where a faster escort has to S turn or manoeuvre to stay close to slower aircraft, the total time taken for the slower aircraft to be escorted must be used against the fuel consumption in Gal/hr of the faster escort to calculate the time that the escort can accompany. Additionally, consumption in all the turns is increased and could be considerable. Having assessed the time that the escort has in company, the distance will be given by the slow aircrafts groundspeed. Fuel burn available in company will also depend upon Bingo fuel, pre join-up burn and reserves/combat fuel etc.
Eng
Low Battery
Airman
- 39
- Sep 11, 2014
I figured out how Greg invented his imaginary Republic 200 gallon high altitude tank that he claims in his video was ignored deliberately by the Army Air Force. He specifically claims it wasn't the ferry tank. As a recap, he claims in the video that Republic made a 200 gallon tank different from the ferry tank that was supposedly "flight tested" above 20,000ft.
ww2aircraft.net
Gregs's Imaginary 200 gallon drop tank (Debunkings Gregs P-47 Range Video)
I was going to make an entire video on this, but quite frankly I am exceedingly lazy so this is going to have to do. Ever since Greg made is absurd video on the P-47s range where he argues that the so called "bomber mafia" deliberately were holding back the P-47 from its true potential I have...
ww2aircraft.net
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The whole bomber mafia conspiracy theory depends on believing that the bomber mafia were obsessed with losing bombers with crews over Germany. A major cornerstone of the argument is that the USAAF had 200 gal tanks but preferred not to use them because they were an evil bomber mafia. Did I mention The Bomber Mafia, it is essential to repeat those three words often and in low grave tones, to convince yourself that it existed. No explanation of why this mafia wanted to kill their own people and destroy the machines that gave The Bomber Mafia its name is ever given. Greg has been told all the facts but with the facts he has no conspiracy theory for people to get outraged about, so no "clicks" for revenue.I figured out how Greg invented his imaginary Republic 200 gallon high altitude tank that he claims in his video was ignored deliberately by the Army Air Force. He specifically claims it wasn't the ferry tank.
Gregs's Imaginary 200 gallon drop tank (Debunkings Gregs P-47 Range Video)
I was going to make an entire video on this, but quite frankly I am exceedingly lazy so this is going to have to do. Ever since Greg made is absurd video on the P-47s range where he argues that the so called "bomber mafia" deliberately were holding back the P-47 from its true potential I have...
Low Battery
Airman
- 39
- Sep 11, 2014
Yeah the Bomber Mafia thing irritates me to no end.
Greg also makes a terrible video on the big buffoon John Boyd and EM theory. This tells me he is signed on to the nonsensical narrative of the "military reform" movement of the 1970s through 1990s. Basically a bunch of luddites who thought that radar and missiles were "useless electronic junk" and that what air force really needed was a super sonic sopwith camel complete with a white scarf.
The narrative many are spinning now tries to link the so called bomber Mafia of WW2 to the entire story of fighter development of the Cold war in an attempt to basically say every "problem" the air force had since its inception was due to crotchety old bomber generals too dumb to understand fighter planes or something.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
However, they did not. They perfected it.
The first engine powered, HTL aircraft to fly, was John Stringfellow's steam powered proof of concept aircraft (in-manned) in 1848.
In 1874, Felix du Temple made the first manned, powered flight.
My advice to dear Greg:
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
I think we should be able to award multiple "Like" icons, I would give you "Bacon", "Winner" and "Funny", not to mention the obligatory "Like".
Shortround6
Major General
Many of these commentators could keep themselves out of trouble by inserting one word in the sentence
the Wright Brothers did indeed invent controlled HTL flight.
perfection still needed some work
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special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,662
- May 13, 2018
That's why most modern books/articles refer to the Bell X-1 as the first to exceed speed of sound in LEVEL flight.
ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
? What the heck does "HTL" stand for in the above posts? The only HTL I could find related to flight was the IATA 3-letter code for Houghton Lake Airport (HTL).
Inquiring minds want to know.
Inquiring minds want to know.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I forgot to put HTL in quotes ("HTL"), not sure where Greg came up with that connection, as "HTL" actually stands for "Helicopter, Training, Bell Aircraft" per USN nomenclature - Bell AC was denoted as "L", since Beech already had the "B". An example, the XFL Airobonita (Navalized P-39) was "Experimental Fighter, Bell Aircraft".
The "HUL" that pops up in USN designations, is "Helicopter, Utility, Bell Aircraft".
Bottom line, Greg is an idiot...
ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
I wonder if he meant HTA (Heavier Than Air), that would at least make sense.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
Todays BC cartoon lightly edited
