Antitank Rifles and MGs. 1930-1945.

[CharlesBronson]

15 mm ZB vz/60.

A large caliber antiarmor machinegun, originally manufactured in Czechkoslovakia in 1938.

Weight 57 kg, operation by gas, and belt feed, originally designed for infantry use later was developed by BSA as vehicle armament. It could be fired in semi-automatic mode as well as fully automatic. It was used on the Light Tank Mk VIC and on armoured cars such as the Humber Armoured Car Mark.

Muzzle velocity 900 mps. Penetration 20 mm at 350 meters.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Despite the not so good penetration power of the Boys it was used by the germans when captured as you might apreciate in this picture, the Afrika Korps was know for never discard anything. The rifle is a monopod Mark I.

 

[CharlesBronson]

The Fucile anticarro Modello 35, better said the Marozcek WZ 35 in Italian use, Russian Front.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Video of the Solothurn S-18-100 cal. 20x105 used by Hungarian troops in the southern sector of the Eastern Front, august 1941.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDDaJhL-Wtg

 

[vanir]

The cute little Püppchen
fired the 8.8cm rocket of the panzerbüchse, which replaced it almost immediately. Apparently German engineers got hold of a bazooka and slapped their foreheads saying, "Of course!"

 

[CharlesBronson]

Nice picture, but the name "rocket antitank rifle" is preponderous, the weapon is obviously a crew manned rocket launchet. And the recoil of this thing was very important, look this:

http://www.wochenschau-archiv.de/ko...000000&inf=3880&outf=628960&funktion=play250k

 

[fastmongrel]

Nice i learned a lot from reading this, a fascinating subject.

Only one thing surprises me though everything I have read about the Boys rifle always says how big, heavy and clumsy it was with a massive recoil. However looking at the stats for the other rifles it doesnt seem like it was particulary big or heavy in comparison. So why did it have such a fierce recoil was it a badly designed muzzle brake or an uncomfortable butt. It also seems to be everyones favourite worst weapon of WWII whereas it seems to me that anti tank rifles in general would have been a waste of time after about 1941.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Only one thing surprises me though everything I have read about the Boys rifle always says how big, heavy and clumsy it was with a massive recoil. However looking at the stats for the other rifles it doesnt seem like it was particulary big or heavy in comparison. So why did it have such a fierce recoil was it a badly designed muzzle brake or an uncomfortable butt.

Agreed, if you compare the Boys with a 20mm Lathi, Solothurn or even the russian 14,5 mm series, well, it actually looks small.

It also seems to be everyones favourite worst weapon of WWII whereas it seems to me that anti tank rifles in general would have been a waste of time after about 1941.

I woulndt declare the AT rifle obsolte after 1941, remember the main british battle scenario in 1940-42 was Afrika. The German-italian PanzerarmyAfrika had a large portion of panzer I, II and armored cars wich were vulnerable to the .55 ap ammunition. Not to mention the Italian light and medium tanks wich could be penetrated in their sides without too much trouble.

 

[fastmongrel]

Were anti tank rifles ever used as sniper rifles. The US army uses .50 calibre rifles for long range sniping and the rifles look like modernised anti tank rifles. I imagine the SAS using the .55 Boys and Russian partizans using 14.5mm rifles could have done a lot of long range damage to German supply trucks or aircraft on the ground at airbases. A 14.5mm or .55" round carefully aimed must be able to knock out or severely damage a truck or aircraft if aimed in the right place.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Were anti tank rifles ever used as sniper rifles. The US army uses .50 calibre rifles for long range sniping and the rifles look like modernised anti tank rifles. I imagine the SAS using the .55 Boys and Russian partizans using 14.5mm rifles could have done a lot of long range damage to German supply trucks or aircraft on the ground at airbases. A 14.5mm or .55" round carefully aimed must be able to knock out or severely damage a truck or aircraft if aimed in the right place.

they were, to an extent but as I understand it they were not accurate enough to be very long-range capable.

 

[Shortround6]

Were anti tank rifles ever used as sniper rifles. The US army uses .50 calibre rifles for long range sniping and the rifles look like modernised anti tank rifles. I imagine the SAS using the .55 Boys and Russian partizans using 14.5mm rifles could have done a lot of long range damage to German supply trucks or aircraft on the ground at airbases. A 14.5mm or .55" round carefully aimed must be able to knock out or severely damage a truck or aircraft if aimed in the right place.

The first I have heard of this was in Korea. To take full advantage of the extra range better optics were needed than standard sniper scopes. THe few teams/groups that used .50cal weapons in Korea used privetely owned target scopes and also at times used mortar range finders (those 3ft or 1 meter long shoulder supported ranges finders) to elimanate a lot of the guess work.

 

[Clay_Allison]

The first I have heard of this was in Korea. To take full advantage of the extra range better optics were needed than standard sniper scopes. THe few teams/groups that used .50cal weapons in Korea used privetely owned target scopes and also at times used mortar range finders (those 3ft or 1 meter long shoulder supported ranges finders) to elimanate a lot of the guess work.

It's a testament to the quality of the M2 Browning that it was capable of being accurized into a single-shot sniper rifle.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Were anti tank rifles ever used as sniper rifles

There are some stories of british soldiers using the Boys to crack rocks near entrenched italian infantry, the shattering fragments supposedly caused severe damage.

The quality of sights was very poor to use it as antipersonnel sniping aniway.

 

[B-17engineer]

I believe from what I've read the Russian PTRS anit-tank rifle was used fro anti-personnel uses towards the end of the war.


PTRS-41

I think the gun was .58 caliber. There are some real awesome pictures towards the bottom.

Length: 78.7 in
Weight, unloaded: 38 lb 2oz
Barrel: 48.3 in, 8 grooves, right hand twist
Magazine: None, Single Shot
Muzzle Velocity: c.3320 fps
Armour Penetration: 25mm (.985 in!)
Ammunition: Soviet A/Tk Rifles: 14.5mm, 994 gr bullet; 478 gr charge

Those statistics are from the Encyclopedia of WWII Weapons

 

[CharlesBronson]

Well...I did post some pictures of scoped PTRS:

The PTRS and PTRD was also tried as a makeshift heavy sniper adding PU 3x scopes.

The extremely heavy recoil wasnt healty for the sight calibration.

But again maybe those were to improve the accuracy against cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc, not necesarily persons, and I f so... well I dont want to imagine the terminal effects made by a 14,5 mm slug at 1000 mps in a human body

 

[B-17engineer]

Yes I don't want to imagine either.....

 

[fastmongrel]

I dont know anything about how big fast bullets act but I once shot a rabbit with a .303 at about 30 yards range. I thought it would blow the rabbit to pieces, however all bullet did was drill a .303 hole through the rabbit and carry on down range. Is it possible that all that would happen is something similar a 14.5mm hole in the poor sod. He would be dead no doubt about it but would an AP round do much tissue damage wouldnt you need a soft bullet or a tumbling bullet.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I dont know anything about how big fast bullets act but I once shot a rabbit with a .303 at about 30 yards range. I thought it would blow the rabbit to pieces, however all bullet did was drill a .303 hole through the rabbit and carry on down range. Is it possible that all that would happen is something similar a 14.5mm hole in the poor sod. He would be dead no doubt about it but would an AP round do much tissue damage wouldnt you need a soft bullet or a tumbling bullet.

As far as the splatter goes, if it is over 2400 FPS at wound entry you get an "explosive wound" effect. the human body contains a lot of liquid and soft tissue that will "splash" with rapid enough energy transfer. Basically, if the bullet is going fast enough the tissue cannot get out of the way fast enough and will be destroyed by the shock wave that ripples through it rather than absorbing it.

Ballistic gelatin reacts to bullets almost exactly like human flesh, these videos should give you an idea


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omUjwaGCSRo


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Zip_b-5RQ


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSGuiko6Gg

 

[fastmongrel]

As far as the splatter goes, if it is over 2400 FPS at wound entry you get an "explosive wound" effect. the human body contains a lot of liquid and soft tissue that will "splash" with rapid enough energy transfer. Basically, if the bullet is going fast enough the tissue cannot get out of the way fast enough and will be destroyed by the shock wave that ripples through it rather than absorbing it.

Ballistic gelatin reacts to bullets almost exactly like human flesh, these videos should give you an idea


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omUjwaGCSRo


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Zip_b-5RQ


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSGuiko6Gg

Very Graphic videos glad I had my breakfast before I watched them. Thinking back the .303 ammo we were shooting that day was reloaded and might have been shooting below the normal velocity.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Very Graphic videos glad I had my breakfast before I watched them. Thinking back the .303 ammo we were shooting that day was reloaded and might have been shooting below the normal velocity.

I shot a rabbit with a 7.62x54R from a Nagand and he was pretty well a rabbit skin after, but rabbits don't have much flesh to blow up, so you don't get as good a reaction. Try shooting a gallon jug filled with water. That's awesome.