fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
I am not saying the USAAF shouldn't have had so many aircraft, just fewer B 24 s and more of ssomething else. I believe a lot of B 24 s ended up flying cargo and passengers, why not build more C54s.
B-24 by Ford Motor Company
- Thread starter A.J. Baime
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Shortround6
Major General
I think the answer is that you can't make a blanket statement. Some sub-contractors (or licence manufacturers) may have been very good, Few complaints about Eastern Aircraft or Goodyear? Vega, a division of Lockheed built 2750 B-17s, Douglas built over 3000.
Some plants, like Brewster, may have had trouble. But each plant had government inspectors at certain stages of production and each plane had to be test flown before acceptance. Most (if not all) contracts had penalties for overweight and/or sub performing aircraft even if performance was within a few percent. If performance was off by too much the plane had to be reworked and flown again.
Not to take anything away from the men who flew and fought in these aircraft but there was (and is) a lot of "hanger talk" that is not always true. Some veterans only know their own experience with a small number of aircraft and what they were "told" over coffee (or beer) from other units. Using that information to judge thousands of aircraft needs a lot of sifting and backing up.
I would say that every factory that turned out several thousand aircraft produced a lemon or two and just like with cars where one "bad" car may sour a person on a brand (company) for life some of these veterans did experience a "bad" aircraft.
Shortround6
Major General
The problem with more B-17s and fewer B-24s is two fold.
One is that the B-24 was a better bomb truck. It carried more bombs further than the B-17. A very important attribute in the Pacific and perhaps in the Mediterranean theater.
Two, you have to decide about 2 years before you need the plane in numbers which one you want. It can take about a year to build a new factory and it can take about another year to get that factory up to producing several hundred planes a month. Or only a few aircraft reach 1000 produced within a year of going into production.
You want more B-17s and C-54s in the Spring of 1944 you had to make the decision in the spring of 1942.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... Cool looking thing but, twin engined??"
Side-by-side V/8's, Lucky .... for long fast runs .... Route 66 maybe.
MM
Side-by-side V/8's, Lucky .... for long fast runs .... Route 66 maybe.
MM
michaelmaltby
Colonel
".... Is there any information on the quality as a whole, of the aircraft produced by sub-contracted companies."
Curtiss-built P-47's were apparently a quality control disaster.
MM
Curtiss-built P-47's were apparently a quality control disaster.
MM
Shortround6
Major General
Ford V-8s were 221-239cu in ( 3.6-3.9 liters). Big truck engines from Mack, Reo, White and others could go from around 380 to over 700 cubic inches ( 6.2 to over 12 liters).
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Spot on! Folks, as stated, there were government inspectors at each plant and these folks held the line for quality, schedule and payment.
Additionally these folks all talked to each other to ensure that each subcontractor's aircraft were just about indistinguishable from the prime's birds.
Somtimes contract requirements and government furnished equipment shortages allowed some aircraft to reach units lackinig equipment or with engineering issues, and that's why mod centers were eventually created.
MikeGazdik
Senior Airman
Ok, this is about what I expected. It seemed the Ford B-24's were getting piled on with negative stories, most of which I had not heard of before.
Somewhat related. 30 years ago, a friend of my fathers told me a story. He was a SeaBee in WWII. He said they used to drag race jeeps on the air strips they constructed and the Ford built jeeps were usually faster. I don't know why, or what if anything was different. And again, that is one mans story from memories.
Somewhat related. 30 years ago, a friend of my fathers told me a story. He was a SeaBee in WWII. He said they used to drag race jeeps on the air strips they constructed and the Ford built jeeps were usually faster. I don't know why, or what if anything was different. And again, that is one mans story from memories.
I suspect that the Willys MB and Ford GPW weren't identical vehicles.
Even though Ford was building them under license, I doubt they were license producing Willy's engines (or whoever Willys bought them from.)
I suspect the same was true for the other various motor vehicles, i.e., trucks.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Parts had to be interchangeable, otherwise, what would be the point?
You can see some minor differences in body panels in early MB and GPW Jeeps, but later war Jeeps are hard to tell apart. Ford stamped a small F on every bolt, and Willys stamped Willys on some body parts. But all the mechanical parts were interchangable, they all used the Willys Go-Devil engine and Warner T-84 transmission. The design didn't belong to Willys, the origional vehicles were made by American Bantam. But production was awarded to Willys and Ford because Bantam didn't have enough production capacity.
I have actually. IIRC it had to do with either Mossies or Mustangs. I know, I know, what else would it be, but I did read it some where years ago that this particular pilot felt the Packard built units were not as good as the RR ones... Just saying.
OK, I assume Ford was supplied with the engines and transmissions (and other assorted components) manufactured by others.
Just trying to come up with why the Fords may have been better drag racers
The IROC racing series used to try to make racecars that were exactly equal in performance, same exact cars for different drivers from different racing organizations to compete on a equal base. They couldn't do it, some cars were stiil a little better than others.
There's so many minute things you can do to just a engine by intention, or accident, that will affect how it runs, no two are even identical. You'd probably still get some differences even if you had complete robotic assembly.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The AAF knew exactly what they needed to do. The attrition rates in 1942 from all causes meant they were not going to expand as fast as they wanted too. Lot's of the B24's coming off the assembly lines in 1942 had to go to the training groups before any overseas assignments could be fulfilled. And they sure didn't know in Nov 1943 that they would be dominating the air war within a year.
Also factor in all the requirements from the USN for the patrol version of this. Plus the quantities needed to fulfill the commitments to our allied air forces.
Aaron Brooks Wolters
Brigadier General
I may be wrong but I believe the Ford built Jeeps used the four cylinder engine from Fords tractors. I have heard this from several individuals who have restored them but I don't know if it is true. Just going by what I have been told.
It was a licensed built Willys engine, That's what the W is in the GPW stood for, Willys. The Willys engine was a 134 ci engine, the Fordson tractors of that era had a 200 ci engine, just a continuation of the Ford model A and B engine.
I've worked on both the Willys and Ford versions, they're the same engine. External parts like manifolds and starters, etc. interchange.
Though it's no telling what somebody might have put in one later, most of the transmission adapter manufactors got their start making adapters for Jeeps.
One easy way to tell if it's a Ford inline or not is to remember Ford inline engines 4 and 6 have the intake and exhaust on the opposite side of the engine from almost every other inline in the world, and that holds true until you get to the most modern crossflow heads. Ford put the intake and exhaust on the right side of the engine, almost everybody else put it on the left.
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stug3
Staff Sergeant
B-24s in Consolidated-Vultee Plant, Fort Worth, Texas. Part of the world's largest double aircraft assembly line in Consolidated-Vultee's Fort Worth plant. In foreground are "Liberator" bombers modified for special American uses. To the rear of this front line are C-87 "Liberator Express Transports" in various assembly stages. The second line is composed entirely of B-24 "Liberator" bombers in final assembly stages.
fubar57
General
Cool pic Stug. The ones on the left look like they are in Navy camo.
Geo
Geo
