B29 with only tail guns

Snake · Oct 15, 2013

I think it was a great idea by Lemay. The old theory that "the bombers always get through" was disproved in Europe in a major way. But by the time Lemay removed most defensive guns from the B-29s (March 9, 45), the B-29s had P-51 escorts to and from their missions versus Japan( as of April, 45). Those P 51s had to fly from Iwo Jima, though, which was a long, tough trip for single engine fighters. But that changed in June, 45, when Okinawa was captured and used as a forward air base.The pluses outweighed the minuses

Snake · Oct 15, 2013

Guys, does anyone know if any sort of fighter escort covered the B 29s on night missions? Am not aware of this if so

MacArther · Oct 15, 2013

Snake said:
Guys, does anyone know if any sort of fighter escort covered the B 29s on night missions? Am not aware of this if so

That was my question too...did we have any escorts for the night raids over Japan? If so, what and how often?

GrauGeist · Oct 15, 2013

Dang good question. My guess would be either a P-51 or P-61 presence...may have to look into that now that I'm curious.

I would think that an escort at night would be a dangerous task, since the B-29 gunners would have no way of telling good guy from bad guy...same goes for the escorts, not knowing friend or foe in the darkness.

syscom3 · Oct 16, 2013

Snake said:
Guys, does anyone know if any sort of fighter escort covered the B 29s on night missions? Am not aware of this if so

Not that I have heard. The B29 website never mentioned anything about it, and they covered LOTS of mundane things.

Shinpachi · Oct 16, 2013

I hate to tell as I think it was too too much but Gen. Lemay was awarded a Medal by the Japanese Goverment after the war.

drgondog · Oct 16, 2013

Shinpachi - that is astounding! I am curious regarding the citation?

As to night fighter escort - I am positive none were flown by Mustangs and pretty sure about P-61s - based on logic, not facts.

First and primarily - There were only three squadrons in the Mariana's and they had a full time responsibility to defend the airfields against night attacks. Japanese night strikes could have been devastating - particularly following the bomber stream and catching them in the landing pattern.

Having said that, the P-61 had the range and probably could loiter - but only singly unless some reliable IFF system could guarantee no Friendly Fire incidents on other P-61s.

Shinpachi · Oct 16, 2013

drgondog said:
Shinpachi - that is astounding! I am curious regarding the citation?

This is not a new discovery that it was officially announced that Gen. Lemay was given Grand Cordon of the Order of the Rising Sun on December 7, 1964 by the Japanese government for his great contribution to training the Japan Air Self-Defense Force.

What it meant was that there would be no chance in the future that Japan would regard him as a war criminal.
He only did what he had to do as a military man and the war was over.
Japanese public at the time did not necessarily accept that as it was but it was a realistic political decision to go forward in the history.

Here is a NHK video in 1978 introducing retired Gen. Lemay and his Medal at 9:04

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvwC3XkgCo

GrauGeist · Oct 16, 2013

The first thought that crossed my mind regarding fighter escort at night was a recipe for disaster. i know the RAF went in without escort but the night campaign over Japan is one I am not all that familiar with, so couldn't rule it out.

Stranger things have happened!

bobbysocks · Oct 16, 2013

Shinpachi said:
This is not a new discovery that it was officially announced that Gen. Lemay was given Grand Cordon of the Order of the Rising Sun on December 7, 1964 by the Japanese government for his great contribution to training the Japan Air Self-Defense Force.

What it meant was that there would be no chance in the future that Japan would regard him as a war criminal.
He only did what he had to do as a military man and the war was over.
Japanese public at the time did not necessarily accept that as it was but it was a realistic political decision to go forward in the history.

Here is a NHK video in 1978 introducing retired Gen. Lemay and his Medal at 9:04

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvwC3XkgCo

that is interesting and i find their choice of dates to award it to him this equally interesting.

Shinpachi · Oct 17, 2013

Thanks for your interest, bobbysocks.

Making a long story short, prior to Gen. Lemay's award, the Pearl Harbor attack planner Gen. Minoru Genda was awarded Legion of Merit degree of Commander by the US goverment in 1962. Genda is said recommended Lemay strongly to the Japanese goverment after his award. They fought each other to shake hands.
Very simple.

It was their war after all.

Skip M · Oct 17, 2013

When I was doing a report in school this is what I found.

1 Fly at night and you can fly lower, you do not need the guns as much, and you do not need formations.
2 Fly lower and you need less fuel and can carry more bombs.
3 Remove guns and gunners and you can carry more bombs.
4 By not flying around getting into formations you use less fuel and can carry more bombs.

This is what I remember reading in the 60's. I forgot that I was a member and it has been 4 years since my last post.

B29 with only tail guns

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Snake

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Snake

Recruit

MacArther

Staff Sergeant

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

syscom3

Pacific Historian

Shinpachi

Colonel

drgondog

Major

Shinpachi

Colonel

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

bobbysocks

Chief Master Sergeant

Shinpachi

Colonel

Skip M

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