johnbr
2nd Lieutenant
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Bachem Ba 349 B-1 Natter
- Thread starter johnbr
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Great pics, I hadn't head of it before.
Cant understand why they translate Natter to Viper when it is a nadder now called an adder.
It was a crack pot scheme, laughed out of the RLM according to Erich Bachem himself. He tried to get Galland to intervene but when that failed went to Himmler. 24 hours after Bachem's meeting with Himmler he was informed that he had immediate approval for his BP-20 project, now under the RLM designation Ba 349.
Helmutt Schlepp of the RLM remembered.
"We ran the show, and that show didn't include Erich Bachem's vertically launched manned missile, at least until Reichsfuhrer-SS Himmler intervened."
The Ba 349 remained an SS project, under the leadership of Waffen-SS General Wolff. 200 'wounded' SS personnel were assigned to the Bachem Werke at Waldsee-Wurttemberg under Waffen-SS Oberleutnant Dipl.-Ing. Heinz Flessner. The SS retained control of the project until the end.
Cheers
Steve
Helmutt Schlepp of the RLM remembered.
"We ran the show, and that show didn't include Erich Bachem's vertically launched manned missile, at least until Reichsfuhrer-SS Himmler intervened."
The Ba 349 remained an SS project, under the leadership of Waffen-SS General Wolff. 200 'wounded' SS personnel were assigned to the Bachem Werke at Waldsee-Wurttemberg under Waffen-SS Oberleutnant Dipl.-Ing. Heinz Flessner. The SS retained control of the project until the end.
Cheers
Steve
Steve it is a vertically launched steerable rocket, what could possibly go wrong?
I think we know what happened when a manned flight was attempted. It didn't last long and killed the unfortunate pilot (Lothar Sieber) who is buried in the village of Heuberg, near Stettin. Willy Fiedler timed the flight, but stopped the watch at 55 seconds, the point where the M-23 arced over the vertical and started to dive, still under power, towards the ground. It was a few seconds later that Sieber crashed. The entire flight lasted barely a minute.
He is honored each year by the modern Luftwaffe as the first man to have made a vertical take off in a bi-fuelled liquid rocket. It would be many years before anyone did so again.
Cheers
Steve
He is honored each year by the modern Luftwaffe as the first man to have made a vertical take off in a bi-fuelled liquid rocket. It would be many years before anyone did so again.
Cheers
Steve
I didn't know that Steve, but it is the least surprising thing I have read in years, poor guy.
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johnbr
2nd Lieutenant
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- Thread starter
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johnbr
2nd Lieutenant
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Old Wizard
2nd Lieutenant
Good shots!
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
That had to be one hell of a ride!
First photograph, first post, shows Dr. Heinrich Rieck and an American soldier by a Ba 349 near St Leonard, Austria. Photo taken 11th May 1945. It is one of a series showing Rieck demonstrating various aspects of the aircraft to his American captors. There is even one with him sitting in the cockpit.
Rieck was working on a new bi-fuel motor for the Ba 349, having been assigned to the project by General Wolff.
Cheers
Steve
Rieck was working on a new bi-fuel motor for the Ba 349, having been assigned to the project by General Wolff.
Cheers
Steve
Apparently the canopy departed the aircraft at launch and hit Lothar in the head rendering the rest of the flight uncontrolled. Rest assured he never let that happen again.
The canopy certainly fell off, it is visible in one of the few photographs of the ill fated flight.
Willy Fiedler, much involved with the V-1 and Ba 349 and who went on to a successful career at the Missiles and Space Division of the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation, now the Lockheed Martin Corporation, witnessed the flight. In his opinion it was impossible for the hinged canopy to have struck the pilot. He believed that the loss of the canopy disturbed the air flow over the aircraft and caused 'adverse moments' on the rudder. He thought that this led to a loss of control and prevented Sieber from being able to do anything to save himself. Some of those who examined the crash site thought that Sieber appeared to have been attempting to escape the aircraft when it hit the ground.
We'll probably never know for sure.
Cheers
Steve
Bachem carried out an investigation into the loss of Sieber and the BP-20/M23 (they rarely used the RLM designation Ba 349 or 8-349, except in correspondence with the ministry).
The salient points were:
1. The acceleration off the tower forced him back in his seat and since he was holding the control column he pulled it back, causing the aircraft to steadily curve onto its back. The auto pilot was not ready for this flight and anyway did not override pilot input.
2. As the aircraft inverted Sieber pressed against the canopy, his harness not being tight enough to prevent this, which caused the latch to fail and the canopy to be lost.
3. When the canopy was lost, Sieber's headrest went with it. This caused his head to snap back through about 25 cm, striking the wooden bulkhead at the rear of the cockpit. This may have concussed him or even broken his neck.
4. It was possible that Sieber himself may still have been able to shut down the main engine after 15 seconds, though this may have been caused by bubbles in the fuel, given the odd angle of ascent.
5.The aircraft was uncontrollable and Sieber was likely to have been dead or incapacitated, incapable of saving himself.
Some of those who saw the crash site believed that Sieber had attempted to escape, but Erich Bachem did not. He would write.
"We found the machine completely destroyed. The pilot had made no attempt to escape. Of our comrade we found only the left hand with a piece of forearm and a left leg that was ripped off below the knee."
It was these remains that led some others to conjecture that Sieber may have been partially out of the cockpit at the point of impact.
Later a portion of his skull was retrieved from the 5m deep crater that ended the first and only manned flight of the Ba 349.
Cheers
Steve
The salient points were:
1. The acceleration off the tower forced him back in his seat and since he was holding the control column he pulled it back, causing the aircraft to steadily curve onto its back. The auto pilot was not ready for this flight and anyway did not override pilot input.
2. As the aircraft inverted Sieber pressed against the canopy, his harness not being tight enough to prevent this, which caused the latch to fail and the canopy to be lost.
3. When the canopy was lost, Sieber's headrest went with it. This caused his head to snap back through about 25 cm, striking the wooden bulkhead at the rear of the cockpit. This may have concussed him or even broken his neck.
4. It was possible that Sieber himself may still have been able to shut down the main engine after 15 seconds, though this may have been caused by bubbles in the fuel, given the odd angle of ascent.
5.The aircraft was uncontrollable and Sieber was likely to have been dead or incapacitated, incapable of saving himself.
Some of those who saw the crash site believed that Sieber had attempted to escape, but Erich Bachem did not. He would write.
"We found the machine completely destroyed. The pilot had made no attempt to escape. Of our comrade we found only the left hand with a piece of forearm and a left leg that was ripped off below the knee."
It was these remains that led some others to conjecture that Sieber may have been partially out of the cockpit at the point of impact.
Later a portion of his skull was retrieved from the 5m deep crater that ended the first and only manned flight of the Ba 349.
Cheers
Steve
Interesting stuff.
skyskooter
Airman
- 33
- Jul 8, 2016
Did no one film this unique flight?
If they did it has been lost.
There are a few photographs, taken from two different vantage points, so at least two people had a camera on the day. None of the photographs are what can be described as high quality, even the ones taken before the flight and as Sieber clambers aboard are not great.
Cheers
Steve
There are a few photographs, taken from two different vantage points, so at least two people had a camera on the day. None of the photographs are what can be described as high quality, even the ones taken before the flight and as Sieber clambers aboard are not great.
Cheers
Steve
So, the only thing left to do is build a replica and give it another whirl ... FOR SCIENCE. I'll be in charge of securing the rail road and piano timbers (I've seen one of these guys). We need volunteers for like ... everything else. This is going to be fun!
