Bartels Claims (and others) Pt.2

[Ratsel]

if I find that doc I was looking at, I'll post it. It might have been on 12 o'clock high. nothing spectacular just some losses from jan-may/45. mainly day fighters.

 

[drgondog]

think the LW losses of 9288 can be quite speculative as we have talked the what if, descension in cloud smoking not able to totally confirm even with wingman or another quad mate at hand. US bomber gunners receiving individual tallies for the shooting down or damaged as confirmed claimed of the same LW S/E or T/E. the real get go and it is so sad we do not know the actual LW losses by wars end for operational flights. they are lost during late 44 till wars end.

Erich - I just re-read your post. First a smoker that disappeared was rarely credited with destroyed - damaged or Probable were the norm.

The 9288 credits are solely for 8th FC and include zero bomber credits - which were absurd.

 

[Ratsel]

this was posted on another forum in regards to JG 27 on 15.11.43 17.11.43:

"15 November 1943: Gefreiter Heinrich Pothmann of 8./JG 27 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 160 032), crash-landing at Tatoi, 90%

On that day the two Luftwaffe fighter units claimed nine victories whereas one B-25 twin-engined bomber was lost. Stab III./JG 27 lost two mechanics:

17 November 1943: Gefreiter Manfred Kleinert of Stab III./JG 27 killed in bombing at Kalamaki
17 November 1943: Gefreiter Otto Heidel of Stab III./JG 27 wounded in bombing at Kalamaki

IV./JG 27 lost one fighter in aerial combat:

17 November 1943: Leutnant Hans Hetzler of 12./JG 27 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 140 ...) in aerial combat 20 kilometers east of Äjina Insel, 100%"

Does any one have which were the units on the American side that were involved in the raid on 11.17.43?

 

[Ratsel]

Does anybody have accsess to or knowledge of the German KBT Geheim Documents of the Luftwaffe from 1945?