Battle of Britain - 80yrs Ago This Summer - Discussion Thread

stona said:

I can say for sure that photograph is one of the well known official photographs.
Taken at the time of a Fox film unit's arrival at Hawkinge on Monday 29 July 1940.
It was a day with some decent summer weather, in the middle of a miserable spell.

The one you've posted shows some 32 Squadron pilots (particularly A Flight) relaxing on the grass at readiness.
There is also a famous long shot of A Flight's dispersed Hurricanes.
The location is on the west side of the airfield with Gibraltar Lane in the background and the same group of pilots visible in the foreground.
A couple of weeks later, when the airfields started to be bombed, such visits by civilian film units were deemed unsafe and stopped.
It's why these photographs became almost iconic images of the battle, even though they were taken before it really got going.

The image very similar to the one you posted found its way onto a postage stamp in 2015!

I can't date the Bf 109 flying by the Eiffel tower, but I would bet soon after the fall of France.
Notice the high camouflage demarcation and lack of any camouflage on the RLM 65 of the aircraft's flank.
The emblems are blurry but I reckon the shield is that of JG 26 'Schlageter'

....and the 'black blob' under the cockpit is the diving cartoon raven, 'Hans Huckebein' of 5./JG 26
on the grounds that I can't make it fit any of the other emblems of the unit at the time, but it's not certain.

Here is a picture of Uffz. Karl Schieffer and his Bf 109, taken at Marquise in 1940 and showing the two emblems in question (just).

Photo' can be seen on Post # 134

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Hornchurch said:

First-off, THIS rather unusual shot, of a 109-'Emil' approaching, then flying across/over The Eifel-Tower, summer 1940.

Perhaps someone would like to suggest the unit/staffel/JagdGeschwader & perhaps, maybe even the ACTUAL date ("If" they know ?)




Meantime,

Here's another superlative shot, of 32 Sqdn at dispersal/readiness, during Summer 1940

I've ALWAYS been particularly taken by their large/massive oversized 'GZ' squadron-fuselage-codes

LOVE this shot, as it has everything...... (Am also a huge fan of Pete Brothers, but he's NOT in this particular shot)

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Stona -
Wanted to say very many thanks for getting back to me, regarding both the origins AND (superb) details that you've furnished regarding THAT 32.Sqdn photo'

I always DO really appreciate when someone such as yourself, can shed light & furnish further details on what is, to me, such a magnificent photograph.

Not just the actual date it was taken, but also the actual airfield, plus the exact location (you mention Gibraltar Lane).

Wonderful, especially for those who live fairly close nearby, therefore able (potentially), to do a "Then & Now" comparison.

It's been some 40+ years since publishers "After The Battle, Then & Now" bought-out that Biblical-sized tome, which many of us can relate to.

Shots like THIS (above), are just epic in content (for those of us from later-generations), especially when they're THIS 'razor-sharp' !

Also, wanna say 'Thanks' for helping to identify that strange looking 'Raven' icon/graphic, the like of which I wasn't sure or knowledgeable of.

I'd already figured that is was likely a J.G.26 machine ('Schlageter'), but didn't want to put words in anybody's minds, lest I'd be wrong.

For a few years now, I've had a small-stash of Tamiya 1/48th 'Emil' 109's, whereas most of my '109 decals relate to late-war 'G's & 'K's


Changing subject & relating directly to tomorrow's date, it'll be the 18th August, regarded in 1940 as "The Hardest Day" (RAF point of view)

As a teenager, back in 1980, I'd bought the small paperback-book - Dr Alfred Price's "The Hardest Day"

Today, I'm typing this out by memory alone, as although I did buy Dr.Price's book, it's sadly not to hand.

Within the book, there are some historically significant photographs.....

But the one that absolutely 'blew me away' = Made me say "Lucky, Lucky B'strd" out loud - (For surviving AND sheer 'disbelief-factor' !!!!!!)


Uffz Kurt or Karl Meyer, a Ju.87 Stuka Gunner, got shot-down by Hurricanes, with his plane & pilot.

The 'lucky, lucky' (dead-a-hole-lucky), Gunner, managed to bale-out and survive JUST !

The photo' shows him, standing outside a Hospital in Sussex, patched-up - AND WITH SIX/SEVEN BULLET HOLES in his body !!!!!!!


You see him - Grinning & smiling before the camera, "Laughing in the Face of Adversity" - SIX/SEVEN BULLET HOLES & NOT OUT

This illustrates three things to me.....

1, The Browning 0.303's "Have Got" an amazingly 'Fast' and high rate of Fire......

2, The Browning 0.303's are clearly FAR better suited to being an 'Infantry Weapon', than they EVER are, as an 'Air-Combat-Weapon'

Fine "if" you're still participating in WW.I, flying yer average 'stick/string & canvas' 1915 Biplane..... Not so 'cool' in 1940

3, That Kurt/Karl Meyer (W.T.F his name was, sorry, don't have the book to hand), was lucky "in the extreme"!!!!!!!

Like I say, don't have the book to hand, but THAT incident (& his lucky fortune), both do & did stick in my mind, relating to 18th August 1940

If anyone reading this does have access to that photo', please DO post it !

P.S ; Also, Stona, et-al - If you either know or could furnish any further detail on that SUPERB Dornier Do.17 shot (Post#158) I'd be grateful.

From what I can gather, it WAS taken in summer 1940 (France/Belgium) & shows a crew from KG.2 - (from memory alone)

(Sod it, I might as well reproduce it here, save folks going 'back & forth' to check it)

It's a great shot of the Dornier, but of course shows absolutely no identifying markings. At least someone isn't standing in front of them (which drives me up the wall!). Everything about it looks right for 1940, someone might be able to identify the airfield. Various elements of KG2 were at Saint Leger, Epinoy and Cambrai-Sud during the BoB.
The other alternative is to identify the men in front of the aircraft.

I can't find a Meyer/Mayer shot down on 18th August. That may be me, or it maybe that Price had the wrong date.

Edit: So I extended my search and found an Uffz. Karl Maier. He was the bordfunker in a Ju 87 flown by the similarly named Fw Hans Meier (it is a very common German surname in its several variations).
Their Ju 87 B-1 of 1./StG77 made it back to France with both men wounded. This sounds like your man, but the photograph cannot have been taken outside a hospital in England.

stona said:

It's a great shot of the Dornier, but of course shows absolutely no identifying markings. At least someone isn't standing in front of them (which drives me up the wall!). Everything about it looks right for 1940, someone might be able to identify the airfield. Various elements of KG2 were at Saint Leger, Epinoy and Cambrai-Sud during the BoB.
The other alternative is to identify the men in front of the aircraft.

I can't find a Meyer/Mayer shot down on 18th August. That may be me, or it maybe that Price had the wrong date.

Edit: So I extended my search and found an Uffz. Karl Maier. He was the bordfunker in a Ju 87 flown by the similarly named Fw Hans Meier (it is a very common German surname in its several variations).
Their Ju 87 B-1 of 1./StG77 made it back to France with both men wounded. This sounds like your man, but the photograph cannot have been taken outside a hospital in England.

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Stona - Mate, I reckon "you have it" nailed !

What I never explained is - I bought the book, as a teenager - So, therefore EVERYTHING I RELATED was purely from memory (which is usually good)

To be fair, after almost 40-years (38 at least), I'm amazed I even remembered they were German - (Laughs profusely !)

I believe that I still have the book - Not 100% because I got divorced & frankly, some of my 'sheet' went missing (M.I.A)

I know I lost an old 1905 Mauser Bayonet (battlefield-relic, bought from a Belgian fellow collector), plus a HELLER DC-6 kit.

Many of my ol' Commando & Air-Ace comics (bought by me, as a kid, in the 1970's), also seem to've gone "walkabout"

What I'm saying is, I can't lay my hands on it, but I sure as heck remember seeing HIS picture & found it (very) remarkable.

In fact, back in summer 1980, I was reading THAT book, on my office-rooftop, which overlooks St.Paul's Cathedral (up-close)

40th anniversary back then of course (plus, I was still a teenager, just !), so, reading THAT book & looking at the 'Dome' (Wren)

StG77 sounds about right - Plus this = Putting 2+2 together, it's clear HIS beaming smile WAS taken back, across the channel.

It's clear now that my (erroneous) presumption was, that he was 'shot-down' (not), patched-up & taken P.o.W (again, not - Laughs !)

You've definitely got THE right man (in your Edit), so it's "My Bad" as the Yanks say, for erroneous 'ingredients' & my 38-yr memory.

To be fair, having 'mislaid' or lost the book (divorce), meant I became FAR more reliant on my 'Then & Now Vol.V' (Straford-Epic)

As the subject (Battle itself), got more & more talked-about, I kinda "switched-off" & my WW.II interest(s) drifted elsewhere**

** (mainly towards the Ardennes 16th Dec' affair & the preceding Hurtgen Forest debacle)

Getting back to Uffz/Karl Meier.....

To be 'spanked-up' (shot-up), as bad as he was, yet, to still be smiling AND grinning like a Chesire-cat, defies belief, almost.

Someone out there WILL have the book & will get to see the picture (in question) - Wonder "if" it's published elsewhere ?

Makes you wonder = With THAT amount of staggering-luck, did he indeed, survive the war ?

Thanks for filling-in the details once again Stona - It's much appreciated, cheers !

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Hornchurch said:

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Getting back to Uffz/Karl Meier.....

To be 'spanked-up' (shot-up), as bad as he was, yet, to still be smiling AND grinning like a Chesire-cat, defies belief, almost.

.

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It's the sort of photograph that might have been published in 'Signal', a magazine published by the Wermacht as a propaganda tool.
I've still got a few somewhere but not, I think, from as early as1940.

-


Came upon this rather remarkable shot/photograph, taken exactly 80-years-ago Last-night !

It's straight after a Luftwaffe night raid on Surrey Dockyards, London, Sept' 7th 1940

stona said:

The raid on Eastchurch was a success for the Germans.

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Out of interest's sake, here are some photos taken at the site of the former RAF airfield at Eastchurch, which has considerable significance in early British aviation history, although now it is Her Majesty's Prison, so the ability to go wandering around taking photos is not very high at all.

View from public land over the former RAF administration site, all prison buildings now. Note the defensive positions.

2107 Isle of Sheppey Eastchurch airfield remains

These are surviving aircraft sheds and although are on prison land are protected buildings (although the prison service isn't investing any money in their preservation, of course) because they were built by the Short Brothers in 1910 and are the oldest surviving aeroplane hangars in the country.

2107 Isle of Sheppey Eastchurch Short Brothers sheds

Evidence of the Luftwaffe's visit to the airfield in the form of bullet holes in this building, formerly the Eastchurch airfield railway stop. It is currently used as leased office space.

2107 Isle of Sheppey Eastchurch Station wall

RAF admin buildings currently in public use. The building at the far left is the small but informative Eastchurch airfield museum, which is packed with information about the airfield's historic use.

2107 Isle of Sheppey RAF Eastchurch buildings

A view of Eastchurch before the Great War when occupied by the Royal Aero Club and Short Brothers. This is on display in the museum.



In Eastchurch village not far from the prison is this memorial to the pre Great War aviation goings on in the local area.

2107 Isle of Sheppey Eastchurch Founding Fathers memorial

Just past the seaside town of Leysdown is this incongruous looking farm land, which was formerly RAF Leysdown.

2107 Isle of Sheppey RAF Leysdown site

The sign at the entrance to Leysdown.

2107 Isle of Sheppey Leysdown sign