Best 50s/60s fighter?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 9, 2006

For that time yes.

I agree though that this is a dificult topic because the advance in technology was so fast in the 1950s and 1960s.

davparlr · Oct 9, 2006

ndicki said:
Don't forget the very short range of the Lightning...

What about some of those obscure USN fighters that I can't remember the names of? Cutlass? Fury? Phantom I, etc? Limited production, so maybe not brilliant, but interesting to throw in nonetheless!

The early Navy jets were rather low performing compared to AF and Russian jets. This included the FH-1 Phantom, F2H Banshee, F9F Panther (which did great service in Korea, and I believe nailed a few Migs), FJ Furys (Basically Navalized F-86s, which was a redesign of the Navy FJ-1), and F9F Cougar. The F7U Cutlass had potential but tended to kill the operator and was retired quickly. The F4D Skyray was a nice jet with good performance and set some speed records and would be a contemporary to the Mig-19. The F3H Demon was kind of a dog and never lived up to expectations, mainly due to the engines, I believe. Then came the F8U and F4H. Both are classic jets and stand tall in the world of fighter jets (F-8 is in the shadow of the ubiquitous and great Phantom II, but don't tell an F-8 pilot that).

Glider · Oct 9, 2006

I always had a soft spot for the F8, considering it to be at least the equal of the F100, which would be a fairer comparison than the F4

Glider · Oct 9, 2006

FLYBOYJ said:
I know the F-100 was a hot rod but it was the later models that were operated effectively. The F-100C didn't have flaps, a little unnerving when landing, this I heard from the pilots at Flight Systems who flew them up till a few years ago as target tow planes in Germany. I think the Mig-17 was more on par with later moder Sabres, it was the Mig-19 that I would put as a F-100 contemporary. The Mig-19 was another effective fighter that at one time was the most cost effective fighter to operate (this data gained fro Pakistan).

Cannot disagree with this, The USAF could have had a lot of problems if N Vietnam had been equipped with more Mig19's as opposed to Mig 17's.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 9, 2006

In the 1980s the Mig-19 was the 2nd most cost effective fighter to operate, the F-16 was #1. This was in an Aviation Week about the PAF.

davparlr · Oct 10, 2006

Glider said:
I always had a soft spot for the F8, considering it to be at least the equal of the F100, which would be a fairer comparison than the F4

I, too, have always liked the F-8 and it make my list of best looking aircraft. I think it was clearly superior to the F-100. As I said, don't say that it's not a fair comparison to the F-4 to an F-8 pilot.

I forgot to mention F11F Tiger which was a nice aircraft but just didn't fit in. It was overshadowed by the F8U. Its main claim to fame was to be a Blue Angels plane.

kiwimac · Oct 10, 2006

Hunter, personally. Although we shouldn't forget the Vampire / Venom either

Bf109_g · Oct 14, 2006

Hawker Hunter...

dahut · Jan 19, 2007

I think this really comes down to two choices, so I'll vote for the MIG. While the Sabre had much more press exposure in combat, what we know of the MIG's indicate that it was pilot skill that truly made the difference.
Had the same aircraft been reversed, ie, Sabre being ComBloc and Mig being GI, one has to wonder where this would have all "landed."

FLYBOYJ · Jan 19, 2007

dahut said:
I think this really comes down to two choices, so I'll vote for the MIG. While the Sabre had much more press exposure in combat, what we know of the MIG's indicate that it was pilot skill that truly made the difference.
Had the same aircraft been reversed, ie, Sabre being ComBloc and Mig being GI, one has to wonder where this would have all "landed."

Overall the Saber was a much more advanced aircraft and I think it has the advantage over the Mig. I've worked on both, the only problem I see is reliability. The Mig-15 was very simple to maintain and operate. The F-86 did have some operational problems. A big advantage with the F-86 was the use of G suits. This took some of the manoeuvrability advantage away from the Mig-15. At the end of the day I think the F-86 is the more superior air-to-air combat aircraft as it has the ability to make the Mig-15 to fight on its terms. The F-86F at lower altitudes was far superior to the Mig-15, and that includes the Mig-15bis.

Smokey · Jan 19, 2007

MiG 17. I like its low wing loading

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Glider · Jan 19, 2007

Only one choice, the Hunter

FLYBOYJ · Jan 19, 2007

Glider said:
Only one choice, the Hunter

bhaaaaaa!

the lancaster kicks ass · Jan 20, 2007

what's wrong with choosing one of the post war's longest serving designs?

FLYBOYJ · Jan 20, 2007

the lancaster kicks ass said:
what's wrong with choosing one of the post war's longest serving designs?

Nothing - I think it's a close second to the Sabre.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jan 20, 2007

I have to agree with FBJ accept that my close second would be the Mig-15 probably. If only for nostalgic reasons.

Glider · Jan 20, 2007

Summary
Air to Air
I agree the Avon Sabre may have the edge of the Hunter in air to air, but not any of the US types. The Mig 15s main advantage over the F86 was its better power to weight ratio which the Hunter knocks into a cocked hat.
So I feel the Hunter has the edge (except as stated, the Avon Sabre)

Air to Ground
Hunter has better firepower, range and payload compared to either the F86 or Mig 15, so again the Hunter has it.

Handling
This would be between the Hunter and the F86, both are reported as being very good and I don't have the information to tell the difference between them.
All I can say is that the Hunter is the only swept wing jet cabable of an inverted flat spin, if it can handle that, it can handle anything.

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FLYBOYJ · Jan 20, 2007

I think the F-86F was more maneuverable than the Hunter, especially at lower speeds. The Hunter was a bit faster but was not as stable when exceeding mach 1. I do give it to the Hunter in the air-to-ground role. An F-86 is such a great flying aircraft, it would never get into a flat spin! Maintainability - F-86 hands down - From what I seen of the Hunter owned by Al Hansen there were a lot of screwed panels small accesses and the IGVs on the Avon looked like a nightmare.

I'll take the Hunter as a very close second...

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Smokey · Jan 20, 2007

The MiG 17 had a massively improved rate of climb, top speed and better maneuvrability than the MiG 15

FLYBOYJ · Jan 20, 2007

Smokey said:
The MiG 17 had a massively improved rate of climb, top speed and better maneuvrability than the MiG 15

That it did, but a late model Saber or Hunter (it's contemporary) will have it for lunch, especially at lower altitudes. The guns on it were deadly but slow firing, still no G-suit and no boosted controls. A good aircraft (Very pretty too) but still not a match for either the Saber or Hunter.

Best 50s/60s fighter?

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