Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

[Parmigiano]

No, no war, I just wnated to say that I have a long training joking on this stereotypes, like when she is pissed at somebody she ask me 'if I have a friend in Sicily who can talk to the person' and when she has a strong opinion on something I pretend to find on her head the label 'Krupp Metallwerke' and so on.

With her two brothers the jokes are much less refined...

 

[Civettone]

Yeah, Germans and Italians are two of the most recognizable stereotypes.




Unlike the Belgians ... thank God
Kris

 

[Wespe]

Hi Parmigiano

there is a fellow on this forum who told me that he mmfffhhp sorry likes mmppff Italian planes.

Maybe you got some nice mmppff pictures for him.

Have fun
Wespe

 

[Parmigiano]

Yeah, Germans and Italians are two of the most recognizable stereotypes.




Unlike the Belgians ... thank God
Kris

Are you sure? The French have a lot of jokes on Belgians, the kind of British have with Irish...

I suppose that there is no Country or race that is safe from stereotypes! Thanks God we can all laugh and apply some healthy self-deprecation

 

[Parmigiano]

Ciao Wespe,

if you mean Cheddar I suppose he has more material and knows more about Italian planes than me.

Just search the forum with some keyword like 'Macchi' 'Series 5' and so on, you will find several discussions.

And be more explicit with your 'mmmpppfff': as Italian I am way too lazy to ever think to make the effort to try to figure out the meaning. I could fall asleep right afterwards.

And btw 'Macchi' is 'Makke' in English phonetic, and (to continue impress you with my culture) it is 'Monna Lisa' not 'Mona Lisa': mona in Italian dialect means 'pu_sy'... while 'Monna' is contraction of 'Madonna', used as 'lady' in ancient Italian

 

[Wespe]

Ciao Wespe,

if you mean Cheddar I suppose he has more material and knows more about Italian planes than me.

Just search the forum with some keyword like 'Macchi' 'Series 5' and so on, you will find several discussions.

And be more explicit with your 'mmmpppfff': as Italian I am way too lazy to ever think to make the effort to try to figure out the meaning. I could fall asleep right afterwards.

And btw 'Macchi' is 'Makke' in English phonetic, and (to continue impress you with my culture) it is 'Monna Lisa' not 'Mona Lisa': mona in Italian dialect means 'pu_sy'... while 'Monna' is contraction of 'Madonna', used as 'lady' in ancient Italian

Hi Parmigiano
So I could say to an Italian girl: when you makke mona contractione I feel fantastico.

 

[dobravery]

Historically it's the Mossie hands down.
The P-38 could bomb strategically, but only did a handful of times.
The Ju 88 was very versitile, but never excelled in one function to the degree that the Mossie did.

Now hold on. . .
If I'm country X and I can only have 1 type of warplane, it would be a P-38.
Though not as well as the Mossie, the P-38 did have the range and bombload to atleast conduct a strategic strike (as in Ploesti).
The Mossie on the other hand would not have functioned well as a day-time air superiority fighter. Sure they have enough speed to bounce a single engined plane and run, but that's it.

 

[drgondog]

I agree the P-38 was a very capable machine, but against the Fw190s and Bf109s the model took a hell of a pounding. It was in the Pacific where the Lightning saw its more memorable episodes.

What about the Ju88? Excellent both as medium bomber and (fearsome) nightfighter; an extremely versatile model

Actually the P-38J 'took a pounding' on about a 1:1 ratio air to air at high altitude in cold ETO air - a. the Allison reliability at 30,000 was dismal and b.) the 38 accelerated too quickly in a dive pursuit going into compressibility quickly so was easy to eavade.

These issues were fixed with the P-38L coming into inventory in May 44. The 20th, 55th, 364th and 479th scored very well in long range escort in the next months until they converted to 51's - and very well on the deck with the 9th AF after that.

The 38L (with dive brakes) changed the odds completely - I believe it was faster, could turn and climb with (and definitely outdive) the 190G-3 but not climb with a 109G-6AS. I'll have to look - I could be wrong on the initial climb against the 109Gs and never saw a performance test vs 190D.

The Mossie and P38 are a toss up - mossie the edge as a long range bomber, the 38 as a fighter vs fighter in daylight.. and mossie the edge as a night fighter.. both deserve consideration as Best All Around a/c built in WWII

 

[Cromwell]

P38

I often think if the US had not 'castrated' the P38 when sold to the Brits (not very helpful) and had given it contra-rotating props from the get-go then it would have been an entirely different scenario in the early war years.

And Cockpit heating too - that worked !

Imagine that during the BoB - the armanent on the P38 would have shredded Heinkels and JUs, and Flying-Pencils.

I think it could have made a Great strategic bomber, if it had been given a fair crack of the whip.

[imagine a P38 with 2 merlins]

Mossie

Could have used Contra (aka 'handed' ?) props

Also, somehow, a rear facing MG operated by the Navigator maybe on a swivelling seat ?

Some kind of fairing at the rear of the canopy, maybe slightly cut-down rear fuselage, could have saved a lot of Mossies from being Jumped from the rear (no one likes that).

Undercarriage

Its often forgotten that the Mossie was not only made of Wood - but used other Non-Strat methods like a Cart made from stacked Rubber bushes within a pressed mild steel casing

- also used Cables rather than hydraulics mostly - made it harder to shoot down too.

 

[Cromwell]

Meteor Vampire

Both of these jets would I believe have made a big impact if the war had gone a little longer - or - if the RAF had been a bit snappier getting them into service.

Thing is, British Jets were essentially more reliable and easier to manufacture - and we had lots and lots of paraffin (gasoil) to run them.

And after the war the Meteor set world speed records and the Vampie set Altitude records.

Turboprops

I often fantasize about Turboprop powered Mosquitos and Lancs

It could have been done - and should have been done, really, as a lot of allied crews lives would have been saved by the higher performance at altitude imho that is.

 

[wingnuts]

I'm a bit late posting on this thread and may not be able to add much. It seems to be a contest between the Ju88, P38 and the Mosquito.

I think the Mosquito has a very slight edge, It was manufactured in the UK, Canada and Australia and it did remain in service until the early 60s.

It did star in several very notable raids like the attack on the Gestapo HQ and when disrupting a speech by Goering in Berlin and another even by Dr Goebbels... also over Berlin.

It did use a lot of non strategic materials and utilised the skills of craftsmen that would otherwise have been underused.

General "Hap" Arnold was enthisiasic about the aircraft although US manufacturers were sceptical. I beleve the USAAC did use some in the photo-reconassance role.

Even Herman Goering was envious

Quote:

"In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy.

The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that?

There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war's over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked." (I'd dispute that last bit about the radio).

Finally I think the Mosquito looks better.... The P38 and JU88 look meaner but the Mozzie is one of those aircraft that look as good as they are..... were.... whatever.

I do like the P38 and by the way... although from the UK originally I'm not a die-hard "British is Best" faanatic... 8)

 

[magnocain]

(im a noob at this so dont kill me)
i think the ju88 could carry a heavier bombload than either the p38 or the mosquito, so that should for somthing.
and i would like to point out that none of these planes could operate from a carrier

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is not true.

The Royal Navy had the Sea Mosquito.

Mk. 33 equiped with power-folding wings, oleo main gearm four-blade propellers, arrester hook, four 20mm cannon, torpedo (or various bomb/rocket loads), American ASH radar and rocket JATO boost.

TF.37: Naval torpedo fighter, basically Mk. 33 with AI/ASV Mk. XIII radar.

 

[Catch22]

Were they operational during WW2?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I am not sure on that.

 

[ccheese]

I am also late getting into this thread (and I'm not going through 51 pages)
but.... has anyone mentioned the PBY ? Rescue, Observation/Spotting,
Dive bomber, Torpedo bomber, Ambulance, Transport, Anti-sub, and a bit
of straffing.

Charles

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree the PBY was a great aircraft and did one hell of a job in the roles that it performed but the only reason I would not vote for the PBY is because there were sea planes in the same class as the PBY that could out perform, had better range and could perform the same tasks and sometimes more than the PBY.

As I said though the BPY (for me and in my opinion) would get an honorable mention and was one hell of a plane.

 

[ccheese]

I mearly mentioned the PBY..... the same could be said for the C-47/R4D.

It was one hell of an airplane.

Charles

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I mearly mentioned why I would not vote for it in my opinion....

 

[Neto]

in my opinion the ju 88 may be the best multiaction aircraft