Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

[Soren]

Having flown the P-38 personally himself as-well as shot numerous of them down I must admit I'm inclined to believe him. Esp. when coupled with the general opinion of Luftwaffe. Galland btw even goes as far as to say that the P-38 was a mistake to manufacture.

There is also a comparison it Dietmar Hermann's book on the 190 IIRC, where the P-38 is compared to the Fw-190 by summerizing the opinion of pilots from some of the Jagd Staffels, and in that comparison the P-38 was indeed mentioned as an easy foe.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Having flown the P-38 personally himself as-well as shot numerous of them down I must admit I'm inclined to believe him. Esp. when coupled with the general opinion of Luftwaffe. Galland btw even goes as far as to say that the P-38 was a mistake to manufacture.

There is also a comparison it Dietmar Hermann's book on the 190 IIRC, where the P-38 is compared to the Fw-190 by summerizing the opinion of pilots from some of the Jagd Staffels, and in that comparison the P-38 was indeed mentioned as an easy foe.

I am sure you will find many people who will say the opposite. I am sure you will find P-38 pilots that will say the same thing about the Bf 109 or the Fw 190 that Galland says about the P-38.

My point:

You can not take an opinion and present it as fact. That is a fact!

 

[Soren]

I see what you mean Adler, it's just his opinion seems to mirror the physical aspect of things as-well. The P-38 is a large and heavy a/c with a wing thrust loading higher than that of the single seat fighters, and thus it is also at a disadvantage in the realm of pure physics.

 

[Juha]

Hello
just a show that with enough oppinions one can pick one to support almost whatever claim

from Interview: Johannes Steinhoff

"...
WWII: Of all the Allied fighters you encountered, which was the most difficult to handle with a good pilot at the controls?
Steinhoff: The Lightning. It was fast, low profiled and a fantastic fighter, and a real danger when it was above you. It was only vulnerable if you were behind it, a little below and closing fast, or turning into it, but on the attack it was a tremendous aircraft. One shot me down from long range in 1944. That would be the one, although the P-51 [Mustang] was deadly because of the long range, and it could cover any air base in Europe. This made things difficult, especially later when flying the jets..."

Soren knows this already, because he had quoted it earlier but not the first sentences.

Juha

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hello
just a show that with enough oppinions one can pick one to support almost whatever claim

Exactly, that is basically the same point I am making.

It is one thing to express opinions, but you can not present them as facts. I like the saying: "Opinions are like Assholes, everyone has one!"

 

[Waynos]

This bit of the discussion reminds me of a section from Stephen Bungay's 'The Most Dangerous Enemy' which prints the letters of a Luftwaffe pilot writing homw about how marvellous the Spitfire is as an opponent but how he pities the Hurricane pilots for being saddled with such an easy plane to shoot down, at the end of the section it is noted that he was shot down and killed by a Hurricane shortly afterwards. I suppose thats why they say opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and they all stink. Oh, I see Adler beat me to it

 

[Soren]

Agree whole heartedly with Adler yours views on opinions, that is why I always want there to be the support of physics to what'ever opinion I see if I am to accept it.

 

[airboiy]

If we are talking about aircraft that actually "multitasked", I would say either the Fw 190 or the P-47.

However, in terms of the aircraft(s) that had the most potential, I'd have to say the Me-262 or the P-40 Warhawk.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

However, in terms of the aircraft(s) that had the most potential, I'd have to say the Me-262 or the P-40 Warhawk.

Why?

 

[airboiy]

Well, both a/c were tough, had versitility, and were pressed into roles they were not built for (i.e. recon, bombing, air support/escort, harrassment ops, close air support) without any major redesigns. Its a shame that the 262 was too late and the P-40 was too obselete, as both aircraft were really good.

I know that the 262 was a maintenence nightmare, but that was because the engines were made with inferior metals/materials, not because the design.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well, both a/c were tough, had versitility, and were pressed into roles they were not built for (i.e. recon, bombing, air support/escort, harrassment ops, close air support) without any major redesigns. Its a shame that the 262 was too late and the P-40 was too obselete, as both aircraft were really good.

I know that the 262 was a maintenence nightmare, but that was because the engines were made with inferior metals/materials, not because the design.

I was just wondering why you would choose the P-40 as a candidate for a single engine aircraft, when there were more versatile and better single engine aircraft. I am not saying the P-40 is not a good aircraft however.

 

[airboiy]

I've always thought that the P-40 ne'er got the credit it deserved from the history books. Thats also the reason why I chose the P-40. Tough, resilient, good firepower,and just a sexy design makes it numero 1 in my book.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I've always thought that the P-40 ne'er got the credit it deserved from the history books. Thats also the reason why I chose the P-40. Tough, resilient, good firepower,and just a sexy design makes it numero 1 in my book.

While I do not think it ever was number 1, I certainly agree that she was a great aircraft and never got the respect she fully deserved.

 

[airboiy]

Another canidate for this thread is the PBY Catilina. It performed admirally in roles it was't designed for.

 

[Cromwell]

So did the Me110 - ask any Lanc pilot from 43-45

Another canidate for this thread is the PBY Catilina. It performed admirally in roles it was't designed for.

 

[tomo pauk]

Mosquito, Ju-88 (night fighters), Fw-200, B-24 (sea patrol planes), P-47, F-4U, Fw-190, Typhoon (ground attack roles) also excelled in stuff they were not designated for...

 

[HerrKaleut]

Has to be 1)Mossy,2)JU 88 and I would also like to put up for third place the Petlyakov Pe-2/3.

Talking of bomb loads,as somebody was, it is interesting that the Mossy could carry half a ton more than a B 17 at 50 knots faster

 

[Cromwell]

Mosquito, Ju-88 (night fighters), Fw-200, B-24 (sea patrol planes), P-47, F-4U, Fw-190, Typhoon (ground attack roles) also excelled in stuff they were not designated for...

What about the Me110 as a Night Fighter and Radar Enabled Too !!

Has to be 1)Mossy,2)JU 88 and I would also like to put up for third place the Petlyakov Pe-2/3.

Talking of bomb loads,as somebody was, it is interesting that the Mossy could carry half a ton more than a B 17 at 50 knots faster

Good Point !

I am also reminded of the Droop Snoot Lightning (click below also)

Droop snoots and pathfinder | Flight Journal | Find Articles at BNET

 

[tomo pauk]

The 110 was a good NF, but Mosquito was better by a mile.
Ju-88 is in my eyes better too, since I do read Erich's posts

 

[Cromwell]

The 110 was a good NF, but Mosquito was better by a mile.
Ju-88 is in my eyes better too, since I do read Erich's posts

OK, yes, but the Me110 was much better as a NF than a Day Fighter too - so top marks to our Teutonic cousins for re-cycling their aeroplanes.

You see, even back in 43/44 some people were trying to recycle