Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

Soren · May 12, 2009

Having flown the P-38 personally himself as-well as shot numerous of them down I must admit I'm inclined to believe him. Esp. when coupled with the general opinion of Luftwaffe. Galland btw even goes as far as to say that the P-38 was a mistake to manufacture.

There is also a comparison it Dietmar Hermann's book on the 190 IIRC, where the P-38 is compared to the Fw-190 by summerizing the opinion of pilots from some of the Jagd Staffels, and in that comparison the P-38 was indeed mentioned as an easy foe.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 12, 2009

Soren said:
Having flown the P-38 personally himself as-well as shot numerous of them down I must admit I'm inclined to believe him. Esp. when coupled with the general opinion of Luftwaffe. Galland btw even goes as far as to say that the P-38 was a mistake to manufacture.

There is also a comparison it Dietmar Hermann's book on the 190 IIRC, where the P-38 is compared to the Fw-190 by summerizing the opinion of pilots from some of the Jagd Staffels, and in that comparison the P-38 was indeed mentioned as an easy foe.

I am sure you will find many people who will say the opposite. I am sure you will find P-38 pilots that will say the same thing about the Bf 109 or the Fw 190 that Galland says about the P-38.

My point:

You can not take an opinion and present it as fact. That is a fact!

Soren · May 12, 2009

I see what you mean Adler, it's just his opinion seems to mirror the physical aspect of things as-well. The P-38 is a large and heavy a/c with a wing thrust loading higher than that of the single seat fighters, and thus it is also at a disadvantage in the realm of pure physics.

Juha · May 12, 2009

Hello
just a show that with enough oppinions one can pick one to support almost whatever claim

from Interview: Johannes Steinhoff

"...
WWII: Of all the Allied fighters you encountered, which was the most difficult to handle with a good pilot at the controls?
Steinhoff: The Lightning. It was fast, low profiled and a fantastic fighter, and a real danger when it was above you. It was only vulnerable if you were behind it, a little below and closing fast, or turning into it, but on the attack it was a tremendous aircraft. One shot me down from long range in 1944. That would be the one, although the P-51 [Mustang] was deadly because of the long range, and it could cover any air base in Europe. This made things difficult, especially later when flying the jets..."

Soren knows this already, because he had quoted it earlier but not the first sentences.

Juha

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 12, 2009

Juha said:
Hello
just a show that with enough oppinions one can pick one to support almost whatever claim

Exactly, that is basically the same point I am making.

It is one thing to express opinions, but you can not present them as facts. I like the saying: "Opinions are like Assholes, everyone has one!"

Waynos · May 12, 2009

This bit of the discussion reminds me of a section from Stephen Bungay's 'The Most Dangerous Enemy' which prints the letters of a Luftwaffe pilot writing homw about how marvellous the Spitfire is as an opponent but how he pities the Hurricane pilots for being saddled with such an easy plane to shoot down, at the end of the section it is noted that he was shot down and killed by a Hurricane shortly afterwards. I suppose thats why they say opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and they all stink. Oh, I see Adler beat me to it

Soren · May 14, 2009

Agree whole heartedly with Adler yours views on opinions, that is why I always want there to be the support of physics to what'ever opinion I see if I am to accept it.

airboiy · May 18, 2009

If we are talking about aircraft that actually "multitasked", I would say either the Fw 190 or the P-47.

However, in terms of the aircraft(s) that had the most potential, I'd have to say the Me-262 or the P-40 Warhawk.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 18, 2009

airboiy said:
However, in terms of the aircraft(s) that had the most potential, I'd have to say the Me-262 or the P-40 Warhawk.

Why?

airboiy · May 18, 2009

Well, both a/c were tough, had versitility, and were pressed into roles they were not built for (i.e. recon, bombing, air support/escort, harrassment ops, close air support) without any major redesigns. Its a shame that the 262 was too late and the P-40 was too obselete, as both aircraft were really good.

I know that the 262 was a maintenence nightmare, but that was because the engines were made with inferior metals/materials, not because the design.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 18, 2009

airboiy said:
Well, both a/c were tough, had versitility, and were pressed into roles they were not built for (i.e. recon, bombing, air support/escort, harrassment ops, close air support) without any major redesigns. Its a shame that the 262 was too late and the P-40 was too obselete, as both aircraft were really good.

I know that the 262 was a maintenence nightmare, but that was because the engines were made with inferior metals/materials, not because the design.

I was just wondering why you would choose the P-40 as a candidate for a single engine aircraft, when there were more versatile and better single engine aircraft. I am not saying the P-40 is not a good aircraft however.

airboiy · May 19, 2009

I've always thought that the P-40 ne'er got the credit it deserved from the history books. Thats also the reason why I chose the P-40. Tough, resilient, good firepower,and just a sexy design makes it numero 1 in my book.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 19, 2009

airboiy said:
I've always thought that the P-40 ne'er got the credit it deserved from the history books. Thats also the reason why I chose the P-40. Tough, resilient, good firepower,and just a sexy design makes it numero 1 in my book.

While I do not think it ever was number 1, I certainly agree that she was a great aircraft and never got the respect she fully deserved.

airboiy · May 21, 2009

Another canidate for this thread is the PBY Catilina. It performed admirally in roles it was't designed for.

Cromwell · May 30, 2009

So did the Me110 - ask any Lanc pilot from 43-45

airboiy said:
Another canidate for this thread is the PBY Catilina. It performed admirally in roles it was't designed for.

tomo pauk · Jun 1, 2009

Mosquito, Ju-88 (night fighters), Fw-200, B-24 (sea patrol planes), P-47, F-4U, Fw-190, Typhoon (ground attack roles) also excelled in stuff they were not designated for...

HerrKaleut · Jun 1, 2009

Has to be 1)Mossy,2)JU 88 and I would also like to put up for third place the Petlyakov Pe-2/3.

Talking of bomb loads,as somebody was, it is interesting that the Mossy could carry half a ton more than a B 17 at 50 knots faster

Cromwell · Jun 1, 2009

tomo pauk said:
Mosquito, Ju-88 (night fighters), Fw-200, B-24 (sea patrol planes), P-47, F-4U, Fw-190, Typhoon (ground attack roles) also excelled in stuff they were not designated for...

What about the Me110 as a Night Fighter and Radar Enabled Too !!

HerrKaleut said:
Has to be 1)Mossy,2)JU 88 and I would also like to put up for third place the Petlyakov Pe-2/3.

Talking of bomb loads,as somebody was, it is interesting that the Mossy could carry half a ton more than a B 17 at 50 knots faster

Good Point !

I am also reminded of the Droop Snoot Lightning (click below also)

Droop snoots and pathfinder | Flight Journal | Find Articles at BNET

tomo pauk · Jun 2, 2009

The 110 was a good NF, but Mosquito was better by a mile.
Ju-88 is in my eyes better too, since I do read Erich's posts

Cromwell · Jun 2, 2009

tomo pauk said:
The 110 was a good NF, but Mosquito was better by a mile.
Ju-88 is in my eyes better too, since I do read Erich's posts

OK, yes, but the Me110 was much better as a NF than a Day Fighter too - so top marks to our Teutonic cousins for re-cycling their aeroplanes.

You see, even back in 43/44 some people were trying to recycle

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