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Hi Folks
The answer is fairly dependant on whether our prospective giant killer has to cope with assorted "little friends" trying to butt in?!
If our herioc "defender-of-the-hearth" gets to play with the B17/B24/B29 formation without any uncouth interruptions then all you need is a plane that can catch cruising bomber formations... With B17/24 this is not really too hard given a sensible degree of warning.
If, as is likely historically, there are swarms of P47/51 type things around then you either need lots of Fw190D/Bf109G-K types to play with the escorts or... Me262s... regardless of their undoubted engine issues, they are the only thing to really have sufficient performance to have a chance of getting a good crack at the massed bombers...
Reality stipulated that a.) not enough 109K/109D's available to keep Reich twins (conventional) alive. The Me 110 died in January/Febr 1944, the Me 410was rendered useless in July - ditto Ju 88 - for daytime effectiveness and way too important as night fighters. The Fw 190A8 needed 109G/K escorts to survive in bomber altitude rat races.
Really "late" war german concepts start getting either utterly hopeless (what-no-fuel?!) or very space age (Luft'46 etc with swept wing creations loaded with guided missiles and SAMs joining in...) depending on desired reality level.
regards alan
I'm going to go with the FW-190 A8/R2. The 262 was pretty good, but it was fragile and pretty much too fast.
Well we're talking about the best bomber killers here, not the best dogfighters
this is subtle but ............ the 262 was a crap of a dogfighter, speed yes, turning .............no way, over and over again US Mustangs put the petal to the metal
ah but on the other hand how many JG's had the A-8 on hand and were in use every stinking day while the 262's did not even come into numbers if we want to call it that till February of 45 when 3/4's of the Reich defense went to the Ost front
no doubt the A-8/A-9 had no chance against the Us Mustang escorts for a variety of reasons but so this was the case for III./JG 7 which made the most impact with their jets, 35 operational about 12-15 per mission if that average, so if we take into consideration with the amount of P-51's kicked up by the 8th, 15th and the lesser extent 9th AF, how many 262's per Mustang.................not many
Ya I see what you mean, and I don't completely disagree with you, though I'd still probably rather fly the FW-190. I guess they had different ways of achieving the same job. For instance the Me-262 most likely made a lot of quick passes, safely taking out one bomber at a time. Whereas the 190 would probably take its time, shoot down a few bombers in one pass, while using its added armor to deflect more rounds, at least somewhat safely.Neither were great dogfighters, but only one had the technology to escape and at the same time had the most effective bomber killing armament, moreso than 190A8.
The other would have been extremely deadly if it had entered operations one year earlier - when escorts were absent. The 262 did not achieve the operational successes due to tactics. The 190A8 did not achieve operational expectations because it did not have a technical advantage to enable engage and escape from escorts.
Pick the one you personally would wish to bring you home from July 1944 to end of war against 8th AF FC escorts?
I still respect your choice - just disagree, though not passionately
In the same context, the Me 110 and 410 were great bomber killers - but like the 190A8 they were dramatically reduced in effectivity by the Mustang.
So, as you intimated earlier - if only the 1908A8 didn't have to play with the escorts - it was awesome.
Ya I see what you mean, and I don't completely disagree with you, though I'd still probably rather fly the FW-190. I guess they had different ways of achieving the same job. For instance the Me-262 most likely made a lot of quick passes, safely taking out one bomber at a time. Whereas the 190 would probably take its time, shoot down a few bombers in one pass, while using its added armor to deflect more rounds, at least somewhat safely.
Not really sure which one is more effective though, i'd assume there's pro's and con's for each. Keep in mind though i'm really just now getting into WWII aircraft, so i'm not exactly sure how accurate some of my assumptions are.
The best bomber killer operated at night. It was the He-219. It had decent enough radar, speed, and massive fire power. If Germany had had more, the RAF bombers would have been little more than sitting ducks. The Allies had no way to escort the RAF at night.
During the day, Germany had many good bomber killers. The problem was P-51s, P-47s, and the P-38s. And the invention of drop tanks. This team made going after our bombers very dangerous work. The German interceptors needed escort fighters just to deal with our escorts. And fighters to defend their own bases.
Bill G.