Best Bomber of WW2 (continued)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that Lanc, it was the same colour scheme
The Mossie could carry the same amount as a B-17 and that had 2 engines of similar size to the B-17's

The engines on the Mossie were larger than those of the B-17 and had about 30% more power.

The Mossie carrying 4,000 lbs of bombs could not carry them as far as the B-17 carrying the same bombload. For the same range, one plane vs. one plane, the B-17 could carry 8,000 lbs of bombs as far as the Mossie could carry 4,000 lbs of bombs. However, in practice, forming up time ate a lot of fuel and reduced the typical B-17 bombloads to 4-6,000 lbs.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[mosquitoman]

ahh, thanks I didn't know that

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!

 

[cheddar cheese]

Which explains why the French were useless...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And let's not forget - a Skyraider can carry as much as a B-17!

Not really. For comparatively short distances it could carry about as much as a B-17 could carry over a much longer distance. For short distances, a B-17 could carry much more than it typically did.

Being a carrier plane, it didn't need the range of a B-17.

=S=

Lunatic

YEP SHORT DISTANCE, LIKE FROM DA NANG AB TO HUE

 

[Anonymous]

The Skyraider could go further, but to do so it had to carry drop tanks, which reduced the payload.

 

[MP-Willow]

Some nice Skyraider pics
Saddly the plane was a little tolate for the war, and was probable the last great prop design.

Now i know you all think the the He-111 was not that great, but I like it and the greenhouse nose has great vision. If they could have been able to clean it up more and get engins and arms, maybe range, then they had a great tatical bomber.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but they still didn't have a heavy bomber...........

 

[cheddar cheese]

Well they did with the He-177, but that was so damn unreliable theres no point counting it.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

exactily, you realise when i say "they didn't have a heavy bomber" i mean they didn't have one that saw allot of service and made an impact on their war effort.........

 

[cheddar cheese]

No, you said "They still didnt have a heavy bomber" which is implying, straight and true, that they didnt have one full stop. I know you meant otherwise though.
The He-177 has to be their only heavy that came close to making an impact though, and I think it saw a fair amount of service.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i still don't considder it was significant enough to allow us to say the germans had a heavy bomber.........

 

[Gemhorse]

Great Skyraider pics, Evan !!!....I recall reading an article about the 'Father Daughter' team, in a FLYPAST magazine I think, she also flys a T-28 Fenec too......

Gemhorse

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

exactily, you realise when i say "they didn't have a heavy bomber" i mean they didn't have one that saw allot of service and made an impact on their war effort.........

That you are correct, they had several projects but none that made into service. The whole German heavy bomber program was started too late anyhow and enver would have been able to make an impact on the war.

Dornier Do-217

Type: High Altitude Bomber
Origin: Dornier-Werke GmbH
Models: V1, V2 and B
Production: 6 Prototypes
First Flight: 1941
Engine:
V1 V2: Daimler-Benz DB 603A inverted V12
Horsepower: 1,750hp
Number: 2

B: Daimler-Benz DB 610A/B double engines*
Horsepower: 2,870hp
Number: 2
*2 x DB 605

Fuel/Fluids:
Fuel Capacity: N/A
Type: N/A
Lubricant Capacity: N/A
Type: N/A
Hydraulic Fluid Capacity: N/A
Type: N/A

Dimensions:
Wing span (V1 V2): 20.65m (67 ft. 8.25 in.)
Wing span (B): 25.90m (85 ft.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A
Length: 16.80m (55 ft. 1.5 in.)
Height: 5.45m (17 ft. 10.5 in.)
Stabilizer Span: N/A

Weights:
Empty: N/A
Loaded (B): 24,000 kg (52,910 lbs.)
Performance:
Maximum Speed (V1): 373 mph (600 kph)
Maximum Speed (B): 416 mph (670 kph)
Cruise Speed: N/A
Range (B, without auxiliary bomb-bay tank):
3600km (2,237 miles)
Initial Climb: N/A
Endurance: N/A
Service Ceiling: N/A

Armament:
Do 317 V1:
Bombload of six 1,102 lb. (500kg) bombs in internal bomb bay.

Do 317B:
Bombload of 12,346 lb. (5600kg) in internal bomb bay
Plus
Two 3,968 lb. (1800kg) bombs on wing racks.

Avionics:
N/A

Essentially a development of the Do 217 with a new fuselage and pressurized cabin. The later B model had more powerful engines, long-span wing, remote-control barbette cannons and a much heavier bomb load. Six B model prototypes were built, though only the first included the pressurized cabin. The remaining five were redesignated Do 217R and issued to III/KG 100 at Orleans-Bricy to launch Hs 293 missles. No further examples were built and the Do 317 programme was abandoned.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/do317.html

Heinkel He-277

Type: Heavy Bomber, Recce and Anti-Shipping Aircraft
Origin: Ernst Heinkel AG
Models: V1 to V3, B-5, B-6 and B-7 Series
Production: N/A
First Flight: Late 1943
Engine:
B-5:
Daimler-Benz DB 603A inverted V12
Horsepower: 1,850hp
Number: 4

B-6:
Jumo 213F
Horsepower: 2,060hp
Number: 4

Dimensions:
Wing span (B-5): 31.44m (103 ft. 1¾ in.)
Wing span (B-6): 40.00m (131 ft. 2¾ in.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A
Length: 22.15m (72 ft. 8 in.)
Height: 6.66m (21 ft. 10½ in.)
Stabilizer Span: N/A

Weights:
Empty (B-5): 21,800kg (48,067 lb.)
Loaded (B-5): 44,490kg (98,096 lb.)
Performance:
Maximum Speed: 354 mph (570 kph)
Cruise Speed: N/A
Range (B-5): 6000km (3,728 miles)
Range (B-6): 7200km (4,474 miles)
Initial Climb: N/A
Endurance: N/A
Service Ceiling: N/A

Armament:
N/A

Avionics:
N/A

An attempt by Heinkel to rectify the problems of the He 177 by mounting four single engines in place of the dual coupled engines, the He 277 was originally met with indifference by Goering. Heinkel was actually banned from developing this aircraft and secretly proceeded by designating it the He 177B. During a meeting with Hitler, Heinkel mentioned the aircraft as a solution to a specification Hitler was making. Hitler ordered the type into production, at which point it reclaimed it's legitimate name of He 277. Numerous prototypes were built but on July 3, 1944 production was halted as the German aviation industry focused on fighter production..
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he277.html

Heinkel He-274

Type: High Altitude Heavy Bomber
Origin: Ernst Heinkel AG (later assigned to SAUF, Suresnes, France)
Models: V1 and V2
Production: Two prototypes
First Flight: December 1945 by the French
Engine:
Daimler-Benz DB 603A-2 inverted turbocharged V12
Horsepower: 1,850hp
Number: 4

Dimensions:
Wing span: 44.20m (145 ft. 2¼ in.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A
Length: 23.80m (78 ft. 1¼ in.)
Height: 2.10m (6 ft. 10½ in.)
Stabilizer Span: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 21,300kg (46,964 lb.)
Loaded: 38,000kg (83,786 lb.)
Performance:
Maximum Speed (Sea Level): 267 mph
Maximum Speed (11,000m): 360 mph (580 kph)
Cruise Speed: N/A
Range: 4250km (2,640 miles)
Initial Climb: N/A
Endurance: N/A
Service Ceiling: 46,915 ft (14,300m)

Armament:
N/A

Avionics:
N/A

Originally designated He 177 A-4, the He 274 was a high-altitude development of the He 177. Like the He 277, the He 274 dispensed with coupled engines and mounted four single powerplants. While originally considered a version of the He 177, growing incompatability of parts led to the redesignation to He 274 and reassignment of the project to SAUF. French resistance workers conspired to slow down development of the He 274 so that the prototypes were not ready at the time of the German withdrawal in July 1944. The French took possession of the prototypes and redesignated them ASA 01A. The prototypes finally flew in December 1945 with French markings.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he274.html

Henschel Hs-130

Type: High-Altitude research (Hs 128),
Recon (Hs 130A, E) Bomber (Hs 130B, C)
Origin: Henschel Flugzeugwerke AG
Models: Hs 128 V1 and V2, Hs 130A-series, B,
C-series, D, E-series and F
First Flight: V1: 1939, 130E: Sept. 1942
Production: N/A

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:
V1: Daimler-Benz DB 600 with DVL turbochargers
Number: Two Horsepower: 1,175hp

V2: Jumo 210 with two-stage turbochargers
Number: Two Horsepower: N/A

C: DB 603
Number: Two Horsepower: 1,850hp

E: DB 603B supercharged by DB 605T in the fuselage.
Number: Two Horsepower: 1,860hp

F: BMW 801TJ
Number: Four Horsepower: 1,800hp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions:
Wing span:
Hs 130V1: 85 ft. 4½ in.)
Hs 130A-0: 29.00m (95 ft. 1¾ in.)
Hs 130E-0: 33.00m (108 ft. 3¼ in.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A
Length:
Hs 130A-0: 14.95m (49 ft. ½ in.)
Hs 130E-0: 22.00m (72 ft. 2 in.)
Height:
Hs 130A-0: 4.90m (16 ft. 1 in.)
Hs 130E-0: 5.60m (18 ft. 4½ in.)
Weights:
Empty:
Hs 130A-0: N/A
Hs 130E-0: 12,200kg (26,900 lb.)
Loaded:
Hs 130A-0: 11,680kg (25,750 lb.)
Hs 130E-0: 18,100kg (39,900 lb.)
Performance:
Maximum Speed:
Hs 130A-0: 292 mph (470 kph)
Hs 130E-0: 379 mph (610 kph)
Range:
Hs 130A-0: 1,385 miles (2230km)
Hs 130E-0: 1,860 miles (3000km)



Armament: C-Bomber
Two Twin MG 131 barbettes
One MG 15 in tail

Bomb Load: C-Bomber
8,816 lb (4000kg

This virtually unknown aircraft was the result of a conversation between Dr. Seewalf of DVL and Henshel regarding a high altitude research aircraft. This aircraft would be used to test pressurized cabins and DVL's new turbochargers and led to the Hs 128 V1 being flown in 1939 at Aldershof. The later Hs 128 V2 differed only in the engine choice and was expected to exceed 50,000 feet.
Three prototypes of the Hs 130A recon airframe flew by November 1940, equipped with remote control cameras. Initially having a shorter wingspan than the Hs 128, this eventually grew to be significantly larger and sported a variety of DB 601 and 605 powerplant configurations. The Hs 130B bomber was never built.
Three prototype of the Hs 130C bomber were built and included armaments and a crew of 4
The E model was the final development of the Hs 130, the F model was never completed, and some E variants later flew to nearly 50,000ft.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hs130.html

Junkers Ju-287

Type: Heavy Bomber
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerks AG
Model: V1 to V3
Crew: V3: Three
First Flight:
Ju 287 V1: August 16, 1944
Ju 287 V2: 1947 by Soviet Union
Number of Flights: V1: 17
Number Produced: 2, (V3) not completed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:
Ju 287 V1 V2:
Model: Junkers Jumo 004
Type: Turbojets
Number: Four Thrust: 1,980lb (900kg)
Note: Four 2,645lb (1,200kg) thrust Walter 501 takeoff
assistance rockets also mounted.

Ju 287 V3:
Model: BMW 003A
Type: Turbojets
Number: Six Thrust: 1,760lb (800kg)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions:
Span: 65 ft. 11¾ in. (20.11m)
Length:
Ju 287 V1: 60 ft. 0½ in. (18.30m)
Height: N/A
Wing Area: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 12,510kg
Loaded: 20,000kg
Performance:
Maximum speed:
Ju 287 V1: 560km/h (348mph)
Ju 287 V3: 865kn/h (537mph)
Range with max. bombs (est.):
Ju 287 V3: 1585km (985 miles)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armament:
Two MG 131 in remote control tail barbette.

Bombs: Ju 287 V3
8,818 lb. (4000 kg)

One of the strangest Luftwaffe aircraft to ever claw it's way into the air was the Junkers Ju 287. Begun in early 1943, the Ju 287 incorporated many advanced aerodynamic concepts, the most striking being the swept forward wings. This design feature was deemed radical enough to warrent the construction of a testbed aircraft, pictured above. This testbed flew on August 16, 1944. The aircraft was a Frankenstien's monster, pieced together from several diffent aircraft. Included were the nosewheels from two B-24 Liberators, the fuselage of an He 177, mainwheels off a Ju 352, and the tail was constructed of Ju 388 parts.
17 test flights proved the concept to have excellent handling characteristics and would have proven a problem had not the allies overrun the testing airfield, capturing the the V1 and the nearly complete V2. The V2 was flown by the Soviet Union in 1947. The V3 failed to get off the drawing board and would have had several improvements.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju287.html

Junkers Ju-390

Type: Long Range Bomber or Reconnaissance aircraft.
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke AG
Models: V1 to V3 and A-1
Crew: N/A
First Flight: Prototypes only
Final Delivery: None
Number Produced: V1 and V2 Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:
Model: BMW 801E
Type: 18-Cylinder two-row radial
Number: Six Horsepower: 1,970 hp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions:
Wing span: 165 ft. 1 in. (50.30m)
Length: 112 ft. 2.5 in. (34.20m)
Height: 22 ft. 7 in. (6.89m)
Wing Surface Area: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 81,350 lb. (36,900 kg)
Loaded: 166,448 lb. (75,500 kg)
Performance:
Maximum Speed:
Clean: 314 mph (505 kph)
With Max. Eternal Weapons: 267 mph (430 kph)
Initial Climb: N/A
Service Ceiling (Typical): N/A
Range in Recce configuration:
6,027 miles (9700 km)
Endurance in Recce configuration: 32 Hours

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armament:
Eight 20mm MG 151.
Eight 13mm MG 131.

Payload:
Transport (V1): 22,046 lb. (10,000 kg)
Bomber (V3): 3,968 lb. (1800 kg)

Avionics:
FuG 200 Hohentwiel Radar.


Junkers Ju-488

Type: Heavy Bomber
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke AG
Models: V401-406
First Flight: None
Service Delivery: None
Final Delivery: None

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Powerplant:
Ju 488 V401-402:
Model: BMW 801TJ
Type: Radials
Number: Four Horsepower: 1,890 hp

Ju 488 V403-406:
Model: Jumo 222A-3/B-3
Type: Multi-banked liquid cooled
Number: Four Horsepower: 2,500 hp
Dimensions:
Wing span: 31.27m (102 ft. 7¾ in.)
Length: 22.23m (76 ft. 3 in.)
Height: 6.10m (20 ft. 0 in.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 21,000kg (46,297 lb.)
Maximum: 36,000kg (79,366 lb.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Performance:
Maximum Speed: 690km/h (429mph)
Initial climb: N/A
Range (fully loaded): 2,113 miles (3400km)
Service Ceiling: N/A

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armament: N/A

The Ju 488 could be described as a mad man's jigsaw puzzle. Comprised of pieces from the Ju 88, Ju 188, Ju 288 Ju 388, the 488 was an impressive four-engined bomber. The first two prototypes were destroyed by Maquis in July 1944. The program was dropped in November 1944.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju488.html

Messerschmitt Me-264

Type: Ultra Long Range Bomber
Origin: Messerschmitt AG
Engines:
Four 1,700 hp BMW 801D or G 18-cylinder radials

Dimensions:
Span: 43m
Length: 20.90m Height: 4.30m

Weights:
Empty 46,627lb.
Max. Loaded 123,460lb.
Performance:
Max. Speed: 565km/h (351mph)
Max range at 217mph 9,321 miles

The Me 264 was designed from the begining as an 'Amerika' bomber. It's goal was to be able to carry a small load to the United States and return or a heavier load and ditch at sea and the crew picked up by U-boat.
The first prototype flew in December 1942, but soon allied presure forced Messerschmitt to slow development and the prototypes were eventaullay destroyed by Allied bombing.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/me264.html

[/quote]

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes i'm aware of some of their ither designs however i'm always doubtfull of figures for planes that never really saw service as we don't know they could have done it in combat.......

 

[KraziKanuK]

The engines on the Mossie were larger than those of the B-17 and had about 30% more power.

=S=

Lunatic

Mossie - 3300ci
B-17 - 7280ci

Now which a/c had the greater displacement?

Mossie - 3200hp
B-17 - 4800hp

Now which a/c had the more power?

 

[cheddar cheese]

Which equates to 1600hp per engine for the Mossie and 1200hp per engine for the B-17, which is less than the Mossie's, which is the point I believe RG was tring to make.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

yes i'm aware of some of their ither designs however i'm always doubtfull of figures for planes that never really saw service as we don't know they could have done it in combat.......

That is true.

 

[MP-Willow]

Some good work with the bombers.

I know that you all will not like this but what the hell! The Germans could have used the P-108, taken it made it better and used it. That would have given them a 4 engine bomber in 1943 So now you can all argue about it. Any thoghts for me new sig?

 

[cheddar cheese]

Ah, MP, Now youre making sense! 8) Hey, they could have had it pre-1943 if they wanted. First flew in 1939, introduced into service in 1941 8)