Best Bomber of WW2 (continued)

[Chiron]

"the effect that one Mosquito was worth 7 Lancasters....For those mathematically-minded, here is the exercise :...... A Mosquito carried a little over half the bomb load of a Lancaster to Berlin. It's casualty rate was about 1/10th of that of a Lancaster. It's cost was 1/3rd of the Lancaster, and it carried two people in it's crew instead of seven....'' Bennett went on to say it's a little hard to get an exact mathematical result"

ya, I wonder if a pack of Lancasters are more effective than a group of Mosquitos. I meant it is more important to have your bombs to drop on precise destination than relying on chance and on quantities of bombs. Mosquito has the modern sense of precise bombing and character of today's bomber as fast and lethal.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

I wonder if a pack of Lancasters are more effective than a group of Mosquitos

depends what you mean by "effective" for carpet bombing the mossies were great for target marking, but the lanc will always deliver the greater punch, for precision raids the mossie will obviously be the first choise, unless something heavier was needed (operation chastise for example) in which case the lanc would always be able to step up to the cause..........

 

[Chiron]

so, what planes were responsible for escorting Lancaster's bombing mission to Berlin? and was there any regular Monsquito esxorting team in war?
I know P-51 was later reponsible for the safeguarding the bombers as a result of request from British Air Force, but why didnt British considered to assign Mosquitos to do that task, insead of P-51?????

 

[mosquitoman]

Everybody wanted mosquitos so there just weren't enough to go around, Coastal Command, Bomber Command, Fighter Command and Recce squadrons had mossies

 

[Gemhorse]

Essentially Chiron, the Mosquito and Lancaster worked 'hand-in-glove' in Bomber Command, the Mosquitos did PR/ Met. work, the weather-forecasting prior to night raids, they did the Pathfinding and Target-marking, and their Best Role was as the Nightfighter's Nightfighter...they were superb at that.....the Light Night Strike Force [LNSF] Mosquitos flew in groups to both either 'select' targets, or created 'spoof' or dummy attacks, to draw the German Nightfighters off the Main Force of Bomber Command.....

They were very hardy for a wooden aircraft, and fast and manoevrable, and became essential to all the work the Lancasters, Halifaxes, Stirlings and Wellingtons did, of Bomber Command....

 

[Chiron]

can someone tells me how effective were those numerious air guns on Lancaster or the B-17???? Since there were so many bombers destroyed from enemy's fighters in each mission, it seemed those defenses were uselsess. Instead of keep, why didnt they reduce the numbers of guns and increase the speed of the plane.

 

[trackend]

I have to agree with Chiron on the point about bomber air to air fire power a machine gun is not a very accurate device it uses weight of shot and rate of fire for effect add this too an unstable gun platform + closing speed of target + size of target + limited target acquisition time it becomes a deterrent weapon rather than highly effective. Even fighters had as many guns piled into them as could be fitted because target acquisition time was short so ordinance impact had to be hard and effective with a limited on target period. The onset of base to target escort aircraft being able to match enemy fighter speeds and maneuverability the target acquisition time increased, thus bomber losses reduced from fighter attack however having said that flak remained the major problem it always had been.
Close formation cross cover wings had some effect but every fighter pilot new the weak points of every model of aircraft or formation be it Lanc's, B17's,etc

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but you have to remember the british didn't rely on defensive armourment as much as the yanks, we used evasive manouvers and electronic counter measures as well as the guns................

 

[cheddar cheese]

Electronic counter measures? EMP's?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

EMPs?? do you mean ECMs??

and yes, the british were world leaders in electronic warfare, we were jamming their signals all over the place, sending them off in all different directions, radars, the lot............

 

[trackend]

I only know of window/chaff prey tell me more Lanc.
As for evasive maneuvers I always thought cork screwing was about it with a fully laden bomber and then only to evade search lights
I don't know but I would have thought it was damn nigh impossible to shake off a fighter once it had you in its sights other that is to throw some lead at it and hope you got lucky or put his aim off.
ps youve just answered the first bit thanks Lanc

 

[mosquitoman]

101 Squadron's Lancaster's had 8 crewmen, one german speaker who found the frequencies that the german nightfighter controllers used so a microphone in one of the engines could be played to block everything out

 

[trackend]

Clever olds sods Wern't they

 

[mosquitoman]

yep

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

You're correct MM however they didn't just speak german, they could speak almost all European languages, however they merely had to be able to identify the languages. baisiclly they scanned through radio frequencies listening for the German ground controllers guiding night fighters, once they've found a transmission, they simply send out pure noise on that frequency, so the germans cannot hear what's going on. 101 Sqn became the largest sqadron in bomber command, at one point being 42 aircraft strong!! they flew dispersed in the formations however they often suffered huge casualties. they still carried and dropped a full payload and were amoung the first sqns. to have the Rose Rice rear turret fitted, however they had many proplems and the 4x.303 were prefered...............

 

[cheddar cheese]

EMPs?? do you mean ECMs??

Nopw, I mean EMP's...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

explain............

 

[trackend]

I think he may be talking of electro magnetic pulse

 

[Gemhorse]

100 Group specialised in Radio Counter-measures to disrupt German ground control....Also, in my reading, it wasn't THAT easy for German Nightfighters to just cruise-up behind a British Bomber and shoot it down, the gunners were very 'on-the-ball', and they gave as good as they got...in fact, they were bloody courageous, faced with multiple cannon and mgs coned to kill, their alertness often saved the aircraft, along with the 'corkscrew' manoevre....It's very revealing when you read books of actual combat histories, and humbling when one realises the balls these men had, to conquer their fears and do the work they did......

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

finally someone on my wavelength (see what i did there) welcome to my world and my side of the argument...............