Best Bomber of WW2 (continued)

[cheddar cheese]

I think he may be talking of electro magnetic pulse

Yep, thanks for that 8)

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

electro-magnetic pulses are what you get after the explosion of an atomic bomb, they're not a form of electronic counter measure.............

 

[cheddar cheese]

Obviously never heard of them before...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes but only in the context of atomic bombs............

 

[trackend]

I think you can produce an electro magnetic pulse in other ways too lanc even your washing machine creates a small field but I'm not ofay with how these are utilized in counter measures
( perhaps Hotpoint or Zanussi missile's)

 

[cheddar cheese]

Im sure its a device that immobilises all electronic components of a machine...

 

[Gemhorse]

Perhaps what Lanc is referring to is the EMP that emanates from a nuclear explosion, that stuffs-up electronic equipment....- Say, if one went off, it would disable my Nissan Skyline, which has about 10 computers in it, but my 1973 Datsun 1200 wouldn't be affected because it doesn't have computers as it's just a basic vehicle...all this applying to aircraft, of course....
Again, the magnetic mines the RAF were sowing off the coast of Europe in 1942, had their own dormant magnetic field....being sown in quite shallow water, an enemy ship with it's own magnetic field passes over, and the light current it's generated, will cause the sensitive solenoid switch in the mine's wiring to close, thus setting off 1,500 lb of explosive mine.....
.....is this the sorta things you mean??.......

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps what Lanc is referring to is the EMP that emanates from a nuclear explosion, that stuffs-up electronic equipment....- Say, if one went off, it would disable my Nissan Skyline, which has about 10 computers in it, but my 1973 Datsun 1200 wouldn't be affected because it doesn't have computers as it's just a basic vehicle...all this applying to aircraft, of course....
Again, the magnetic mines the RAF were sowing off the coast of Europe in 1942, had their own dormant magnetic field....being sown in quite shallow water, an enemy ship with it's own magnetic field passes over, and the light current it's generated, will cause the sensitive solenoid switch in the mine's wiring to close, thus setting off 1,500 lb of explosive mine.....
.....is this the sorta things you mean??.......

Transistors of any kind are effected. Even thin wires of short length can be effected. Your 1973 Datsun would likely be at least partially disabled, you'd have to go back to an early 60's vintage car to be completely safe (no transitors).

EMP pulses can be generated by means other than nuclear explosions. There is for instance, a device that would allow a police car to disable another car using an EMP generator. However, because the power of the pulse diminishes with the cube of the distance, only nuclear explosions can generate EMP's of sufficient power to be destructive beyond a very short distance.

EMP's could be used as a form of electronic countermeasure. Supposedly the Soviets had a system designed to detonate 3 large nukes in space above the USA to wipe out communications across North America. It is concievable that some of the existing non-nuclear high energy chemical systems (such as those used to power laser weapons) could generate enough energy to emit a directed EMP pulse that could be considered a "counter-measure".

Technically, all radio wave emmissions are EMP's of a sort, though generally when we say "EMP" we mean the level of magnetic energy generated by a nuclear explosion.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[Gemhorse]

Thanks RG, that makes it abit more clearer....

Britain did use 'pulses' in the War, it came in the form of 'Oboe', a name given to a ground-controlled blind-bombing device of unique accuracy....From 30,000 ft at speeds of over 300 mph, the average operational error was only 300 yds; for lower heights it was even less....

'Oboe', [named so, as one navigator thought the 'note' of the CHL set sounded like an oboe, and the name stuck], was a system using two stations each with a different role: one, the tracking station - code name 'Cat' - sent dot-dash signals to the pilot; - The other, the releasing station - code name 'Mouse' - measured the groundspeed of the aircraft, warned the navigator of the approx; time before bomb release and gave the release signal...Both stations operated on the same wavelength but used different pulse radio frequencies [PRFs]. A pulse repeater in the aircraft responded to both PRFs so each station could measure the aircraft's range independently...The purpose of the repeater was to boost the signals to increase the range...The track to the target was along an arc of the Circle of Constant Path Range passing through the point of bomb release [R/P] with the 'Cat' at the centre....To avoid jamming it was proposed to operate in the centimetre band and, to avoid German interference with the information sent to the crews, it was incorporated in the pulse frequencies.....As the 'beam' [technically it wasn't a beam in the accepted sense of the word, because of it's aural similarity it is referred to as a beam...] was an arc it was estimated that the average time for the pilot to settle on it and fly it accurately would be 10 mins. flying time....A position on the track, called point A, equal to 10 mins. fly-time, was measured back from the R/P, and given to the crews at briefing, together with the height and airspeed at which the run must be made...Height and airspeed were vitally important because they were part of the complicated formula to calculate the R/P, and were used to determine point A....The navigator's job was to get the aircraft to point A, 10 mins. before time on target...Each crew had their own call-sign and this was transmitted from both stations, so when they heard their own call-sign, then and only then, the nav switched-on the repeater....Almost immediately the pilot would receive dots or dashes, depending on which side of the track they were on...When he settled on the beam, he got an equi-signal tone, in other words, a steady note....depending on where he was in relation to the target, and he would receive Morse letters that indicated by code his drift and time to correct, to get on line for the target....Finally, he would receive the release signal, 5 dits and a 2.5 second dah, and when the navigator pressed the bomb-release, it automatically cut-out the aircraft transmitter, so the ground stations knew the exact time of release...He would then switch-off the transmitter as soon as possible after bombing, so the next aircraft could be called.....

Alot more was involved to get the system ironed-out, but that's the initial rudiments of 'Oboe', and they started this around late 1941.....In time, to extend it's range, it was fitted into high-flying pressurised Wellingtons, and eventually in Mosquitos, about July 1942, so they could bomb right over to Berlin and other distant targets...It's value was huge to Bomber Command, along with the aid , H2S, that allowed them to bomb through cloud, and alot of this work was created in parallel with the US, both swapping valves and sets etc., to forward the accuracy and volume of the bombing of Germany.........

 

[trackend]

Thanks for that interesting Gem, Gem.
I never knew that , have you got any source material you could recommend I read for more details on OBOE please.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

love the siggy trackend......

 

[Anonymous]

Gem,

Oboe was not effective from 30,000 feet, nor was it as accurate as you've claimed. No British bomber could fly at that altitude, typical bombing was from well below 20,000 feet.

Oboe took over two years for Britain to develop, and like the other radar bombing systems employed, was defeated by German counter-measures in a couple of months.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

we were still world leaders in electronic warfare however........

 

[Anonymous]

we were still world leaders in electronic warfare however........

Yes and British accomplishments were signficant. My point is that Britain had to deploy a new radar assisted bombing system regularly because it was much easier to counter such a system than to deploy it. Typically the British spent 2+ years developing a system and it was defeated in 2-3 months. What is impressive is that the British had overlapping development of such systems and had the next system ready to come on line within a few months of the previous system's being defeated.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

exactly so it wasn't a huge problem, we always stayed ahead of the Germans, and the rest of the world...............

 

[mosquitoman]

Gem,

Oboe was not effective from 30,000 feet, nor was it as accurate as you've claimed. No British bomber could fly at that altitude, typical bombing was from well below 20,000 feet.

Ever heard of Pathfinder Mosquitos? They did the marking for everyone else to bomb, the only reason that it faded at lower altitudes was the curvature of the Earth. It was called Oboe because the pulse sounded like an oboe

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

hell lancs were used in the low level pathfinder role aswell..............

 

[mosquitoman]

They probably used Gee, G-H or H2S

 

[MP-Willow]

RG- I thought the Halifax bombed from 25,000ft? If that is wrong please let me know.

But I agree that Oboe could not be that good. Even the USAAC bombsight never worked that good in the field. In testing on clear nights some did get great marks

 

[mosquitoman]

MkIII Halifaxes could bomb at 29,000 feet if I remember correctly