Best Bomber of WW2 (continued)
- Thread starter cheddar cheese
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
- Status
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
Probable D You know the one. Two stage Jobie, why not V3 ? it seems logical Plan I don't know about the V3 cannon I'm not religious (I've heard of pope Gregory the 3rd) 
Gemhorse
Senior Airman
I believe the He-177 was a flawed design from day-one, the He-277 a continuation of the flawed dream.....
Some time ago, I read Capt. Eric Brown's book on Luftwaffe aircraft, and he was scathing in his assertion of firstly it's handling, let alone it's projected capabilities....[While there are some who may pour scorn on Capt. Brown's writings, he was THERE during the War, and he did actually FLY them and I feel his experiences give him full justification to write what he did in his unbiased manner....]
The He-177 was really an after-thought, because as stated by others, the German technique was Stukas and twin-engined 'Blitzkreig' bombing; they had no vision of 'long-range heavy bombing', and only started to dabble with it once things started to go awry in Russia......and couple that with the fact they were getting hammered day night by the USAAF and Bomber Command, it was really a 'retalitory idea' in that light....
Germany had lots of 'bright-ideas', and bombing the US with uniquely-special bombers, supported by fighters from aircraft-carriers they never succeeded in building was desperate pipe-dreams.....The US was bombed, albeit very lightly, by the insidious Japanese 'jetstream-balloons', which could have become a real problem, but only a few reached that far....
Through 1943 into 1944, Germany was already doomed by Allied bombing, and if we're talking 'Best Bombers', I found this comment interesting, from Gordon Musgrove's book, ''Pathfinder Force''.....
''With the advent of the P-51D Merlin Mustang the USAAF was able to operate deep into Germany with fighter cover. By attacking aircraft factories it compelled the German Air Force to defend itself and, by it's victories, broke the back of the Luftwaffe [not numerically; in quality and experience.] Shortly after D-Day Bomber Command turned to daylight attacks over Northern France and later, when the British fighters were based on the Continent, they accompanied the bombers to targets in Germany. British bombers were the most economical: they carried a greater load and, by dropping larger bombs, they caused even more devastation. Now, because the force could bomb with precision by day or night or in conditions of 10/10ths cloud, Bomber Command became the most versatile...''
This again highlights the Lancaster and Mosquito in particular, as in these latter stages, these are what aircraft Bomber Command were using more exclusively, plus Halifax's; - the Stirlings and Wellingtons were not by then used in great numerical strength.
From my reading, what Germany WAS then using to good advantage, was the Ju-88, as a Nightfighter, and they were still very lethal....more so than the Bf- 109/110/210/410 and Fw-190, as their speed and firepower [including the 'Schrage Muzik'] and with twin-engined ability, appear to have admirably defended the Reich as best they could...The single-engined fighters seemed more dangerous in the day raids overall.....
For Germany, it was the Ju-88....
For Britain, it was the Lancaster Mosquito.....
For the US, it was the B-17 B-24.....
Over Japan, that was the B-29's ballpark.......
Some time ago, I read Capt. Eric Brown's book on Luftwaffe aircraft, and he was scathing in his assertion of firstly it's handling, let alone it's projected capabilities....[While there are some who may pour scorn on Capt. Brown's writings, he was THERE during the War, and he did actually FLY them and I feel his experiences give him full justification to write what he did in his unbiased manner....]
The He-177 was really an after-thought, because as stated by others, the German technique was Stukas and twin-engined 'Blitzkreig' bombing; they had no vision of 'long-range heavy bombing', and only started to dabble with it once things started to go awry in Russia......and couple that with the fact they were getting hammered day night by the USAAF and Bomber Command, it was really a 'retalitory idea' in that light....
Germany had lots of 'bright-ideas', and bombing the US with uniquely-special bombers, supported by fighters from aircraft-carriers they never succeeded in building was desperate pipe-dreams.....The US was bombed, albeit very lightly, by the insidious Japanese 'jetstream-balloons', which could have become a real problem, but only a few reached that far....
Through 1943 into 1944, Germany was already doomed by Allied bombing, and if we're talking 'Best Bombers', I found this comment interesting, from Gordon Musgrove's book, ''Pathfinder Force''.....
''With the advent of the P-51D Merlin Mustang the USAAF was able to operate deep into Germany with fighter cover. By attacking aircraft factories it compelled the German Air Force to defend itself and, by it's victories, broke the back of the Luftwaffe [not numerically; in quality and experience.] Shortly after D-Day Bomber Command turned to daylight attacks over Northern France and later, when the British fighters were based on the Continent, they accompanied the bombers to targets in Germany. British bombers were the most economical: they carried a greater load and, by dropping larger bombs, they caused even more devastation. Now, because the force could bomb with precision by day or night or in conditions of 10/10ths cloud, Bomber Command became the most versatile...''
This again highlights the Lancaster and Mosquito in particular, as in these latter stages, these are what aircraft Bomber Command were using more exclusively, plus Halifax's; - the Stirlings and Wellingtons were not by then used in great numerical strength.
From my reading, what Germany WAS then using to good advantage, was the Ju-88, as a Nightfighter, and they were still very lethal....more so than the Bf- 109/110/210/410 and Fw-190, as their speed and firepower [including the 'Schrage Muzik'] and with twin-engined ability, appear to have admirably defended the Reich as best they could...The single-engined fighters seemed more dangerous in the day raids overall.....
For Germany, it was the Ju-88....
For Britain, it was the Lancaster Mosquito.....
For the US, it was the B-17 B-24.....
Over Japan, that was the B-29's ballpark.......
Attachments
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
yep i'd go along with that, and i've spent the whole of this morning compiling some information and figures that i hope you will find interesting, i cirtainly did, i'll post them sometime...........
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
V-3 = fleißiges Lieschen, kind of a supergun
A huge complex build in northern France at Mimoyecques and Pihue-les-Guines. One complex consisted of five barrels with a length of max. 150 m (~420ft, extendable to 500 ft) and an elevation of between 40 and 50 degrees. It´s purpose was to fire 5.9 inch grenades (7 feet, 9 inch long) to London or other targets in up to 100 miles distance.
The muzzle velocity was about 1600 m/sec. (~5.300 ft./sec).
Both places have been widely protected by concrete steel and Beton. Actually Lt. Joe Kennedy died by training for a PBY4-1 radio controlled attack on Mimoyecques known as project Anvil. Each bomber had over 20.000 lbs of Torpex on board, once on course, both crewman should bail out and let the plane crash into the target. None of those places ever fired a shot since the working delayed considerably by french workers and 14 Lancaster of No.617 squadron dropped Tallboys on the sites. Damage was only minor but one of the Tallboys got a lucky hit and moved through an small opening (call it Luke Skywalker!) and detonated on the deep inside, where it´s schockwave opened water bearing chalks in the lower level and killing some thousend french worker.
Two smaller guns have been fired on Antwerpen and Luxemburg in january and february 1945.
A huge complex build in northern France at Mimoyecques and Pihue-les-Guines. One complex consisted of five barrels with a length of max. 150 m (~420ft, extendable to 500 ft) and an elevation of between 40 and 50 degrees. It´s purpose was to fire 5.9 inch grenades (7 feet, 9 inch long) to London or other targets in up to 100 miles distance.
The muzzle velocity was about 1600 m/sec. (~5.300 ft./sec).
Both places have been widely protected by concrete steel and Beton. Actually Lt. Joe Kennedy died by training for a PBY4-1 radio controlled attack on Mimoyecques known as project Anvil. Each bomber had over 20.000 lbs of Torpex on board, once on course, both crewman should bail out and let the plane crash into the target. None of those places ever fired a shot since the working delayed considerably by french workers and 14 Lancaster of No.617 squadron dropped Tallboys on the sites. Damage was only minor but one of the Tallboys got a lucky hit and moved through an small opening (call it Luke Skywalker!) and detonated on the deep inside, where it´s schockwave opened water bearing chalks in the lower level and killing some thousend french worker.
Two smaller guns have been fired on Antwerpen and Luxemburg in january and february 1945.
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
Cheers Del now I know. dont I
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
Gemhorse said:
Don't forget the Hally, she was a major player aswell
The A-10 ICBM was the ony that had many V-2s attached and as one ran out of fuel it would fall away, like on a space rocket. It would have probably been named the V-4 because as you see, V-3 was already taken.
Von Braun designed it, he also designed most post-war ICBMs and he also headed the design team of the Saturn 5 rocket. It was him in 1967 that announced to the U.S (and World) "I do believe we can put a man on the moon, yes" - Which became Saturn 5 on Apollo 11.
Von Braun designed it, he also designed most post-war ICBMs and he also headed the design team of the Saturn 5 rocket. It was him in 1967 that announced to the U.S (and World) "I do believe we can put a man on the moon, yes" - Which became Saturn 5 on Apollo 11.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
ok before i post them figures, what was the normall maximum payload for the PBY-5A??
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
Officially the V-4 was not determined to any weapon. Could be that the A-10 would get a V-number but in the probable timeframe we would be in 1946 with the first A-10 launches, if even. At this time the V-4 would surely have given to another project (nerve agents, subcritical nukes and so on..).
According to a british aerospace magazine, publishing the performances of the captured He-177, there was good luck for the allies that the plane did not came to operational service sooner.
According to a british aerospace magazine, publishing the performances of the captured He-177, there was good luck for the allies that the plane did not came to operational service sooner.
- Thread starter
- #571
cheddar cheese
Major General
the lancaster kicks ass said:
I think it was around 2000lbs
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
well i have sorces saying between 2,000 and 4,500lbs.........
- Thread starter
- #573
cheddar cheese
Major General
Max. Payload may well have been 4,500lbs but everything ive seen says the Max. normal payload is 2000lbs.
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
A lot depends on the role you have in mind. The PBY had 4 hardpoins, IIRC, two under each wing. For a/s work, the max payload carried would be 1000-2000lb (as depth bombs generally came in 250lb and 500lb varieties). As a bomber, 2000-4000lb (assuming 500lb or 1000lb GPs are used). I believe a 1000lb GP was the largest weapon the hardpoints could carry.
evangilder
"Shooter"
Interesting question. I have 2 books that say it was 4,000 lbs (David Mondey- American Aircraft of WWII and Charles Catton- WWII Warplane Guide). Then I have a Bill Gunston book that says 2,000 lbs. (Encyclopedia of the World's Combat Aircraft) and another Gunston book that says 4,000 lbs.! (Encyclopedia of World Air Power). I am guessing that it is probably capable of 4,000 lbs., but would typically carry 2,000.
Glider said:
And thats the point I was trying to make. I think they could have pulled off one raid with one aircraft (and complete loss of the aircraft) because of surprise. No one would have thought it would be possible. She woudl have been lost certainly right after the raid because of US fighters and thats even saying she had the fuel to get back. And other attempt at a raid would not have worked.
MP-Willow
Staff Sergeant
Lanc: For the PBY-5A I have 4,000lb max for bombs/torpedos It will depend on the mission type. More airtime less arms, but that is basic.
DearAdler, the US coast was patroled of sorts with B-18s, but not well. I want to read more about US Coastal deffence in the war. It was not up to the Brithish standards, or should it have been?
DearAdler, the US coast was patroled of sorts with B-18s, but not well. I want to read more about US Coastal deffence in the war. It was not up to the Brithish standards, or should it have been?
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
ok i'll go with 4,000lbs??
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
MP-Willow said:Lanc: For the PBY-5A I have 4,000lb max for bombs/torpedos It will depend on the mission type. More airtime less arms, but that is basic.
DearAdler, the US coast was patroled of sorts with B-18s, but not well. I want to read more about US Coastal deffence in the war. It was not up to the Brithish standards, or should it have been?
Try this book: Homer J. Hickham Jr., Torpedo Junction, Bluejacket Books, Annapolis, MD (1996). ISBN 1-55750-362-1. About $20.00.
While it mainly focusses on the Coast Guard in 1942/3, it provides a very thourough account of the forces (or lack of) available to the US for the defence of the Atlantic seaboard. Even with requisitioned Army and civilian aircraft and two dozen Royal Navy trawlers, the US was hard pressed to combat the U-boat menace until convoys were finally introduced in 1942. It's excellently written too, and is fast-paced enough to convey deatil without becoming dry. Highly rcommended
8)- Status
