Admiral Beez
Major
Was there any British jet fighter that could be competitive in the Korean War?
Best British jet to send to Korea 1950-53?
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
I don't think they had anything on a par with the Mig-15 or the F-86 at the time for fighter service. Maybe the Canberra for bombers?
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Admiral Beez
Major
The F-86 was superlative and gets all the attention, but the US also sent to Korea the Lockheed F-80 Shooting Star and F-94 Starfire, Republic F-84 Thunderjet, Grumman F9F Panther, and McDonnell F2H Banshee. Are Britain's jets of 1950-53 so far behind all these?
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I don't know, could the Hunter or Sea Vamp hang?
buffnut453
Captain
The Hunter didn't end service until 1954. The Venom entered service in 1952 and had the following performance figures:
- Maximum speed: 640 mph (1,030 km/h, 560 kn)
- Range: 1,080 mi (1,740 km, 940 nmi)
- Service ceiling: 39,400 ft (12,000 m)
- Rate of climb: 9,000 ft/min (46 m/s)
- Wing loading: 56.17 lb/sq ft (274.2 kg/m2)
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Admiral Beez
Major
The RAAF flew the Gloster Meteor F.8 in Korea. Is this aircraft comparable to the Lockheeds?
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Admiral Beez
Major
It's too bad the British took so long to get their jets operational or never pursued many of their better designs. Some of them would have given the MiG-15 a good fight. For example, the swept wing Hawker P.1052 first flew in Nov 1948, eleven months after the first MiG-15.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
In what role?
buffnut453
Captain
It was something of a mish-mash. The 77 Sqn crews were primarily trained in ground attack but when they arrived in Korea, the USAF assigned them as escorts for B-29s. Unsurprisingly, given the lack of operational experience in air combat, coupled with the inferiority of the Meteor to the MiG-15, it didn't excel. After relatively heavy losses (often, the Meteors were confronted with superior numbers of MiGs), they were withdrawn and used for airfield defence before, eventually, being reassigned to ground attack.
This website has some good detail and photos of the 77 Sqn Meteors in Korea:
The link includes some hair-raising stories, and at least one photo, of heavily damaged Meteors making it back to base. Overall the Aussie Meteor drivers did impressive work but, sadly, their tale is largely forgotten (not unlike that of the 1st Bn, Gloucester Regiment at the Battle of the Imjin...but I digress).
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The RAAF begged for the Sabre - they never wanted the Meteor. Lieutenant General Stratemeyer told the RAAF there was "no possibility" of acquiring the Sabre prior to 1954.
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Admiral Beez
Major
I wonder if the RAAF ever tried to buy the Saab 29 Tunnan or Dassault Ouragan. Both entered service in time for Korea.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Well that was short lived, IIRC he was replaced for medical reasons in 1952. I believe the first CAC Saber flew in 1953. The rest is history.
Hi Joe.
I've assumed Stratemeyer was referring to spare Sabres not being available for the RAAF and also the SAAF until 1954. So that part would be true?
It was Wackett behind the curtain paving the way for the home-produced Sabre - first production CA-27 Sabre Mk.30 flew 13th July 1954. Deliveries began in August 1954 and the final Avon-Sabre was handed over in December 1961.
I've assumed Stratemeyer was referring to spare Sabres not being available for the RAAF and also the SAAF until 1954. So that part would be true?
It was Wackett behind the curtain paving the way for the home-produced Sabre - first production CA-27 Sabre Mk.30 flew 13th July 1954. Deliveries began in August 1954 and the final Avon-Sabre was handed over in December 1961.
They're not mentioned in official histories.
I do see the Hawker P.1081.
As well as the Grumman Panther.
And the very optimistic CAC CA-23.
CAC CA-23 - Wikipedia
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Perhaps? IIRC I believe the licensing agreement was in place in 1951 with North American. SAAF operated F-86s in Korea but I think they got there after Stratemeyer was gone and obviously before 1954.
From Wiki - "The prototype aircraft (designated CA-26 Sabre) first flew on 3 August 1953. The production aircraft were designated the CA-27 Sabre and first deliveries to the Royal Australian Air Force began in 1954. The first batch of aircraft were powered by the Avon 20 engine and were designated the Sabre Mk 30. Between 1957 and 1958 this batch had the wing slats removed and were redesignated Sabre Mk 31." Ref: Wilson, Stewart (1994). Military Aircraft of Australia. Weston Creek, Australia: Aerospace Publications. p. 216.
Thanks for that Joe. I didn't realise South Africa got their hands on the Sabre before the conflict ended.
The South African Air Force
Privately run, unofficial website on the South African Air Force. It is maintained by myself during my (limited) spare time so please read the Disclaimer. I hope you enjoy the experience and visit again soon. All suggestions are welcome - Dean Wingrin
www.saairforce.co.za
So I wonder if Australia was expecting too much of the Americans in 1950 in acquiring the Sabre as a 'loaner' or for sale? Maybe if we had waited a little longer the Meteor may not have been required?
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Don't know if politics came into play, money or just poor decision making. No doubt the Avon Sabre was probably the best of the lot!
Hi Mark.
Even then, the early models weren't well received, so I've read. Here's part (he wrote a long letter!
) of an interesting letter to the editor, Air International September 1979, by a Mr Bob Broad of Craven Arms Salop, outlining the Hunter's early faults from his flying experience. I can post more if interested.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
yes please
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- #20
Admiral Beez
Major
What was better the CAC Sabre or the Canadair Sabre?
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