best fighter of ww II

[Lightning Guy]

Yes because the US was obsessed with the 37mm weapon for ait-to-air use between the war years. Why that was I'll never know.

 

[plan_D]

Do you think the P-38s weapons were perfect, or maybe replacing one .50cal with a 20mm? Or even all .50 cal? Would have been better?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

for a larger aircraft like that you would expect a bit more, look at the beaufighter (yes i know it's allot bigger), but it had 4x20mm and 6x.303, that would make short work of anything out there....................

 

[Lightning Guy]

There were a couple of tests done on the P-38's armament during the war. One managed to cram 8(!) .50cal machine guns into the nose and another fit a second 20mm cannon (2 20mm and 4 .50cal total). Both tests were successful but no change was ever implimented. All in all, the weaponry on the P-38 made for a good balance in rate of fire, weight of fire, destructive power, and ammo load.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i stil think it needed more.....................

 

[ev0]

3*.50cal + 2*20 mm rounds would have been the ideal. The 20 mm's would have given the aircraft a much better punch and something to fire at bigger aircrafts with.....

 

[Gemhorse]

I've gotta agree with LG on this...It's always annoyed me the RAF continued to use the .303 for so long - The .50's 750/850 rpm might be slower than the .303's 1,150 rpm, but a .50 is a 710 grain bullet [usually] to the .303's 174 grains, virtually a mini-cannon shell ! And then it's only a 100 fps slower than a .303....that's 'rocks against pebbles' guys...- I voted Mustang and you'll notice they got rid of .30's in them pretty early in the game...The thing that made the difference between the Mustang and the Spit was the Laminar-flow wing, which they finally implemented on the Supermarine Spiteful, abit late for the War...I believe the Spit was more manoevrable, but remember the Mk.XIV was a very heavy fighter, but very powerful...the Mustang always had the greatest range, and agility against the German aircraft, the Fw 190 had the greatest rate of roll, the Mustang was supreme in the ETO in the finish, as the P-38 was in the PTO, but I still love the Spitfire in all it's variants, it 'took the weight' in most of the combat, at least the ETO and MTO, where it's range allowed...

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well like I mentioned, a P-38 was tested with 4 .50cals and 2 20mm. The 20mm cannons were fed from 90 round drums (9 secs of firing time). That made for a heavier punch, but one that didn't last as long. Still, it was probably the best armament option attempted. 4 20mm cannons were considered but the ammo load became so low that it wasn't worth the effort.

Interesting note, although the Fw-190 had the highest rate of roll of any fighter I know of (by an insane margin) the P-38L could out-roll it at high speed (350+ mph).

 

[Gemhorse]

Everything I've read about the Lightning in the ETO indicates that it was out-manoevred by the later Luftwaffe fighters, but not so the Mustang....

 

[Lightning Guy]

I've got countless reference from both American and German pilots that the P-38 could out-turn both the 109 and the 190. An unlike many fighters, the later marks of the Lighting turned even better thanks to combat and dive flaps.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i always thought it was because of the flpas that they could turn that well anyway..........................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well the combat flaps where added on the G model Lighting and they did wonders for the turning ability though I have read that it was able to out-turn the Luftwaffe fighters without these. Starting with the J-25 model, the dive flaps were added and these could be used to quickly pitch the nose up, further tightening the turn.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

to be honest i doubt the lightening could out turn a 109.......................

 

[Maestro]

to be honest i doubt the lightening could out turn a 109.......................

Yeah, me too.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The words of Johannes Steinhoff, Kommodore of JG 77
"Pilots who had fought them said that the Lightning was capable of appreciably tighter turns and that they would be on your tail before you knew what was happening."

Oberleutnant Fraz Stiegler of JG 27
P-38s "could turn inside us with ease and they could go from level flight to climb almost instantly."

Hans Pichler
"In my estimation, the P-38 was more maneuverable and faster than our Bf-109G-6. . . "

 

[Gemhorse]

The Bf 109's biggest handicap was those leading-edge flaps, which came clunking out ...However, I have reservations about the Lightning vs Fw 190's, particuarly the Dora's...

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well, I've got to be honest, I've never seen any evidence of a direct test between a P-38 and a Fw-190. However, in head-to-head tests, a P-51 was shown to out-turn the 190 and the P-38 was shown to out-turn the P-51. I've also seen several authors who suggest the P-38 could out-turn the Fw-190.

 

[Gemhorse]

The Mustang vs Fw-190, the 190 is nearly 50 mph slower at all heights, increasing to 70 mph above 28,000 ft...little to choose from in the maximum rate of climb but the 'Stang is considerably faster at all heights in a zoom climb....and can always out-dive the Fw-190. - Turning circle, the Mustang has a slight advantage, but no-show with rate of roll against the Fw....Basically they were close competitors, but in the light of all that, the Mustang really superceded the P-38, both in range and agility against German fighters. The Bf-109 was almost equal in the climb with the Mustang, but that was about it. They didn't fare well against P-47's either... The P-51H was about the fastest piston-engined fighter at 487 mph, but barely got into it's stride before the War finished...[ abit like the DH Hornet and the Ta-152] - Mustangs also scored some success against the Me-262's in certain situations, but ultimately the Mustang's were responsible for the gradual demise of Germany's best seasoned pilots, sometimes at cost to themselves...Everything I've read indicates the P-38 contributed by quantity to the establishment of Air Superiority, along with P-47, Spitfires and Tempests, but combat superiority was asserted by Mustangs...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i think i'd pretty much agree with that..................................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Here's a quote that you might finding interesting . . .

"All other parameters being equal, it was the radius of the Lightning which allowed the ETO daylight bombing offensive to succeed at a time when losses were high and long term success questionable. By the time Mustang numbers built up in the ETO, the Luftwaffe had already crossed the knee in the Lanchesterian attrition war curve and defeat was inevitable. While the much admired P-51 made a critical contribution, it is worth noting that cumulative deployments of the Merlin powered P-51 matched the P-38 only as late as the end of 1944, which is clearly at odds with the established mythology. With the 8th AF, the long range escort load was shared equally by the P-38 and P-51 throughout the decisive first half of 1944."