best fighter of ww II

Discussion in 'Old Threads' started by a finn, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. a finn

    a finn New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I saw that here was some time ago discussion about the best fighter of WW II. My contribution to that discussion :

    Best kill ratio : Brewster B-239 (Used by Finnish Air Force) and the whopping kill ratio was 26:1
     
  2. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    i was just going to mention that - i think thats a pretty amazing kill ratio for only about 49 planes to acheive, i think throughout the war they only lost about 12 of them?
     
  3. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    11,985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It looks pretty good on paper but it was against Soviet pilots. The Finnish were good pilots and had some pretty inventive tactics for air warfare. It certainly doesn't qualify the B-239 as the best fighter.
     
  4. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    It was effective in the early years but throught out the years it got out classed in the engine department, but the handling and manoeverability were brilliant 8)
     
  5. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Maneuverability brilliant? I don't think so. Or maybe you would like to ask the Marines of VMF-221 who lost 13 of the 19 Buffaloes committed to the battle of Midway. One of the pilots who survived the battle, Captain Philip R. White, later wrote, “It is my belief that any commander who orders pilots out for combat in an F2A should consider the pilot as lost before leaving the ground.”
     
  6. a finn

    a finn New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Well, here's a comment about B-239, it was said by Ilmari Juutilainen, leading finnish ace (97.5 victories) : "I started my Brewster flights in the beginning of April 1940, doing all the aerobatics maneuvers, stall and dive tests. I was happy with my Brewster. It was agile, it had 4,5 hours endurance, good weaponry - one 7,62 mm and three 12,7 machine guns - and an armored pilot's seat. It was so much better than the Fokker that it was in another category. If we had had Brewsters during the Winter War, the Russians would have been unable to fly over Finland."

    So, remember that Finnish Brewsters were F2A-1 models, which was much lighter and more agile than later F2A-2's

    I'm still not saying it was the best fighter, but pretty good in the circumstances
     
  7. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    97.5 victories, how do you get a half?
     
  8. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    but as was said, it was against the soviots...............
     
  9. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    its still impressive 8)
     
  10. a finn

    a finn New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Well, I don't know how you get a half-victory. It must be shared with someone else. But it can get even more strange than that. In some sources the number of his victories is 94 and a sixth of a kill. I don't know which is the correct number, but strange numbers still :lol:
     
  11. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
  12. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    11,985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It was all against the Soviets though.

    To get a fraction of a kill you either share the kill with a wingman, or several wingmen. Or you shoot up the plane but never see it go down.
     
  13. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Typically shooting up an aircraft that wasn't seen to crash would only be ruled as a probable and not as half-kill. Different air forces had different methods of calculating scores with some counting half kills and even probables as whole kills for propaganda. One country even awarded extra kills based on the size of the plane, three kills for downing a 4 engine bomber for example.
     
  14. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    probably the french, to make em look better :lol:
     
  15. a finn

    a finn New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    C.C. you're probably right. Or how about germans, how do you get over 300 victories without cheating somehow. (Although I have heard that german aces got their kills so that the wingman "almost" made it, and then the ace finished the job.)
     
  16. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    that said i think Hartmann was pretty good.

    Wlcome to the site btw :D hope to see a lot more of you around :D
     
  17. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    11,985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    You have to remember with the German aces a lot of them served in the Spanish Civil War then went to the Eastern Front. In both areas they were better trained pilots, and mostly in better aircraft.
     
  18. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    IT'S MY BIRTHDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!! :new-bday:

    however back on topic, in "The RAF at war" (there you ge erich, a referance) it talks about a british newspapersaying that "the luftwaffe now holds mosquito night fighters in such high regard, if a pilot shhots one down, he's allowed to count it as two", proberly not true and only properganda, but funny all the same :lol:
     
  19. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Platonic Sphere
    :D Lanc thanks for posting a reference..........I feel better now........burp ~

    say you are correct, Goebbels tried to make the Mossie LSNF bomber force sort of a propaganda toold and anyone that shot down a Mossie was consdiered a hero for a weeks time. Day or night, and then that idea fizzled out as the LSNF decided to continue their bluffs with the Luftwaffe defences and used four differnet routes in towards Berlin and it's environs and then a different way out back to England. No the pilots were not given credit for two kills but their usually was quite a nice letter write up about the victory.

    happy bithday by the way and many more to come........ ! :D
     
  20. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    thanks, i think you're begining to aprechiate me??

    and once again, more initails i don't understand, what does "LSNF" mean??
     
Loading...

Share This Page