Best naval fighter II

[Lightning Guy]

I agreed the Zero was better than the Wildcat. But both the Hellcat and Corsair were clearly superior to the Zero.

 

[David m Card]

I agreed the Zero was better than the Wildcat. But both the Hellcat and Corsair were clearly superior to the Zero.

Corsair forsure!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cls12vg30]

Actually the Wildcat pilots developed new tactics quite quickly to deal with the zero, to best take advantage of the Wildcat's rugged construction, which was the main advantage they held over the Zeroes, with their unarmored cockpits and fuel tanks, and lightweight construction.

 

[Lightning Guy]

That's true, the Thatch weave was being employed as early as the battle of Midway.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the zero could easily out turn any american fighter out there, but that was it's only real advantage over them, the truth was that they were under armed and under armoured.........................

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Zero wasn't underarmed. It initially carried 2 7.7mm mgs and 2 20mm cannons. That would compare very favorably with the armamenr being employed on Spits, Hurricans, 109s, and P-40s at the same time. Later versions carried more than double the ammo for their cannons and had 13mm mgs in stead of 7.7mm.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

for some reason you're comparing it to planes in the ETO, against big beefy planes like the wildcat and corsair, they didn't do much....................

 

[Lightning Guy]

First of all, those were the planes that were contemporay with the Zero and no one complains about their being undergunned. The A6M2 threw a slightly higher weight of fire than the Wildcat but had less muzzle energy (due to the low muzzle velocity of the Japanese 20mm weapons). The Corsair did have the A6M5 outgunned, but it was close. It is also interesting to compare the Zero with the most used Japanese Army fighter, the Ki-43 'Oscar' which was most commonly armed with 2 12.7mm mgs. No contest there.

 

[plan_D]

The American tactics did get sorted out in Midway, but if you re-read my post it quite clearly states for the first 6 months. I don't know if you've ever realised but Midway was 6 months after the start.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but as i said, the american planes in the PTO could take more damage as they were "beefier" than planes in the ETO..................

 

[Lightning Guy]

I agree with all of that, but if you are going to pick a Japanese plane to pick on for it's armament, don't pick on the Zero. It was better armed than ANYTHING in Japanese service until the Jack and George came into service at they didn't really get into the action until 1944. The armament carried by the Zero was very similar to that used by the 109 and the Spit throughout the war and pilots of those aircraft had no trouble, and neither did pilots of the Zero.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Oh, on the note of American tactics, I would like to again mention the AVG who well before Midway had demonstrated the proper tactics for combating the Japanese. Unfortunately, the American government was too stubborn to listen to Chennault, but the tactics did exist and had been proven in combat.

 

[plan_D]

The Zero still walked all over the Wildcat for the first six months. And the fact that the Wildcat needed to resort to 'far-out' tactics to achieve victory proves the Zero the better fighter.

In every dogfight you take advantage of your enemies weaknesses, and keep away from their strengths. It's how you win a fight.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

so using that theory you wouldn't start a fight with a zero, you would run...................

 

[Lightning Guy]

I think I've said all of that before . . . Yes the Zero was the better fighter but the Wildcat had the better record. I'm not sure how much action there truly was between the Wildcat and the Zero during the first six months, there was Wake, Coral Sea, and the Midway. I don't think they saw much head to head action during the carrier raids since America was mostly making quick strikes and trying to avoid a head-on encounter with the Japanese.

 

[plan_D]

No Lanc, that is the theory of fight. And the Wildcat pilots did that, when they started to win. Going on at them head-on.

 

[Lightning Guy]

It depends on the situation. The Wildcat and P-40 pilots were basically in the same situation. There advantages were diving speed, firepower, and rugged construction. If they had an altitude advantage, they were happy to dive down and bounce the Zero from above. The P-40 was fast enough in the climb that it might be able to zoom back up to altitude for another pass.

 

[MP-Willow]

Speed, dive and break off. If rhe Zero culd play in a slow speed turning classical dogfight the P-40 and F4F were outclassed. They could only hope that sturdy frame could keep them alive.

The AVG had reported the A6M to the Governant, but the War Department did not act on what they were given in a timly manner. The P-40 did truely hold its own. So did the F4Fs on Wake, until they ran out of everything and were out numbered

Plan_D, the RN was given a good shelacking in the Indian Ocean so you should remember that

 

[plan_D]

I think you should remember that Naval Warfare isn't like any other warfare, the RN kept what it needed. And since not much was needed in the Pacific and South-East Asia, it wasn't hard. Most, if not all, British land was lost to land forces.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The RAF forces that were fighting along with the AVG took a thumping in China as well.