mkloby
Senior Master Sergeant
I'm wondering - is ww2aircraft.net advertising at labotomy shops???
Best Piston Engined Fighter Ever...
- Thread starter lesofprimus
- Start date
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rogthedodge
Airman 1st Class
- 155
- May 9, 2007
Maybe wrong on this but wasn't the Sea Fury the only one to down a Mig?
Plus it was the only Anglo-German aircraft design collaboration of WW2
Plus it was the only Anglo-German aircraft design collaboration of WW2
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
recip aircraft shooting down jets don't mean a whole lot unless you were on the receiving end. P-51, Yak-9, Corsairs, B-29s and Skyraiders all shot down jet aircraft....Maybe wrong on this but wasn't the Sea Fury the only one to down a Mig?
Plus it was the only Anglo-German aircraft design collaboration of WW2
rogthedodge
Airman 1st Class
- 155
- May 9, 2007
Yeah but in the Korean War? - ie a proper Mig, rather than ME262?
According to wiki the Sea Fury could take on the Mig 15 with some confidence - surely that's a measure of greatness?
I'm genuinely asking, not challenging what you say.
According to wiki the Sea Fury could take on the Mig 15 with some confidence - surely that's a measure of greatness?
I'm genuinely asking, not challenging what you say.
And Wikipedia is also one of the worst sources to use because anyone can edit and post what is said in it.
Dont take me wrong, I use it as well for quick searches of things but you have to take some of it as a grain of salt and be absolute sure of the truth if you are going to use it as a source.
Dont take me wrong, I use it as well for quick searches of things but you have to take some of it as a grain of salt and be absolute sure of the truth if you are going to use it as a source.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
No problem...
Me 262s were brought down by recips during ww2 for several reasons. They were vulnerable during take off and landings due to the poor spool up times of early turbine engines and they were overwhelmed in numbers. Over Korea things didn't change much as far as 2nd generation jet engine performance except you had varying pilot skill levels on the Communist side.
I could assure you no matter how good the Sea Fury was, under normal conditions and 9 times out of 10, it was not going to better a Mig-15 assuming pilots of equal ability were flying each aircraft. BTW - the Chinese (flying Mig-15s) claimed 4 Sea Furies during the Korean War...you could check the dates yourself at two more reliable sites...
Korean Air War
Chinese Air-to-Air Victories during the Korean War, 1950-1953
rogthedodge
Airman 1st Class
- 155
- May 9, 2007
Fully appreciate that - that's why I cited it.
Also recognise this site is the home to many experts hence me asking rather than stating.
So is the Mig kill anything special or just one of many by a piston-engined aircraft?
Anyway the Fury - even the salty version - is still getting my vote
Also recognise this site is the home to many experts hence me asking rather than stating.
So is the Mig kill anything special or just one of many by a piston-engined aircraft?
Anyway the Fury - even the salty version - is still getting my vote
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Well remember my first statement - A jet kill in a recip is only significant if you were on the giving end. It's a David vs. Goliath as far as technology and tactics are involved. I sure those jet pilots who were downed by a recip aren't talking about it much (if they survived). Those who were the victors made it well known. Putting this into perspective, those recips that downed jets shouldn't be measured on their greatness based on one or two missions where an aerial combat oddity occurred, but rather their whole operational history as well as performance. In Post WW2 we're looking at the Sea Fury, F-51, Yak-9, Corsair, Skyraider, and the B-29 as a few of those recips that took on jets and won...Fully appreciate that - that's why I cited it.
Also recognise this site is the home to many experts hence me asking rather than stating.
So is the Mig kill anything special or just one of many by a piston-engined aircraft?
Anyway the Fury - even the salty version - is still getting my vote
VA-176 MiG Killers 9 Oct 66
Anyway the Fury - even the salty version - is still getting my vote
Either way the Fury is a good pick. There are plenty of aircraft that actually would be good and wise picks. This is one of them.
drgondog
Major
F4U-5 or Sea Fury. If it has the be best ever it also has to fly Carrier Ops?
Survivability at any altitude and threat environment? F4U-5
Load carrying/dirt punisher? F4U-5
Career? F4U-5
From a convicted Mustang lover
Bill
Survivability at any altitude and threat environment? F4U-5
Load carrying/dirt punisher? F4U-5
Career? F4U-5
From a convicted Mustang lover
Bill
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
Amen, brethren!
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
A good aircraft but not even close to a Ta 152, P-51H or F4U-4...
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
Why isn't the P-47M up there? Not a whole lot were made, and rnge wasn't great but it was still better than the Spitfire and Me 109K.
The cowl-mounted MG 151/15's in the K-4 is an awsome dogfight and interceptor armament and the MK 108 adds to the interceptor strenghts, and with ~450 mph at ~20,000 ft as well I wouldn't want to see P-51D's trying to defend B-17's aganst them.
The P-47N is the best escort fighter, wich other single-engined fighter could range over 2,300 miles and boast a top-speed of 460 mph.
I've always wondered though, how much faster would the P-47M and N have been with a XP-47J type nose, possibly another 10-20 mph each and with an increase in range as well. Or just produce the P-47J, as it would have come much sooner than the P-72. Now that would have been a menace to German Jets, even if faught on the Me 262's terms. (and the P-47J shouldn't have been too hard to develop into an escort fighter, particularly with a 200 gal belly tank available... besides the paper one)
The cowl-mounted MG 151/15's in the K-4 is an awsome dogfight and interceptor armament and the MK 108 adds to the interceptor strenghts, and with ~450 mph at ~20,000 ft as well I wouldn't want to see P-51D's trying to defend B-17's aganst them.
The P-47N is the best escort fighter, wich other single-engined fighter could range over 2,300 miles and boast a top-speed of 460 mph.
I've always wondered though, how much faster would the P-47M and N have been with a XP-47J type nose, possibly another 10-20 mph each and with an increase in range as well. Or just produce the P-47J, as it would have come much sooner than the P-72. Now that would have been a menace to German Jets, even if faught on the Me 262's terms. (and the P-47J shouldn't have been too hard to develop into an escort fighter, particularly with a 200 gal belly tank available... besides the paper one)
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
Though the new nose probably would have slowed initial production due to retooling needs, it took awhile for the teething problems to be solved with the R-2800-57C anyway and the P-47N had new wings to retool for as well.
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
I read some more, and it seems the nose of the XP-47J, while successful (in function and adding 30 mph to the top speed and improving range due to lower drag along with a slight increase in climb for the same weight and engine) it was deemed to cost too much and add mechanical complexity (due to the cooling fan).
drgondog
Major
I have read a lot of things but the one I believe is that we simply didn't need it (more speed, more complex logistics, more dollars consuming a future budget, etc) to achieve a small to medium, relatively speaking, increase in performance over the P-47N (or P-51H) - when the US was looking at the P-80 and Me 262 as the next 'generation'.
The P-51H was due to evolve into the P-51M with the -11 Merlin and position for a smaller performance boost - but all recips were bumping into the .80 Mach limit for conceivable combat ops.
I wouldn't be suprised if someone told me that USAAF looked long and hard at Ta 152 - but at the end of the day even it was a very minor progression over the P-51H or Spit 21, etc.
Having said that the fly high/Fly fast was clearly going to the jet.
The P-51H and P-82 was chosen to survive (over the P-38M and P-47N/M) because the Long Range escort role was deemed the prime mission in the nuclear age and the P-51 was both cheaper and deemed more capable overall in the escort role.
The F-84G was next in line for ground support. and the P-80 became the air superiority fighter over medium ranges - we just didn't have enough nof all of them including the 86 (and F9F and AD's) for Korea and the 51 was chosen to fill the breachfor USAF rather than complicate logistics and cost.
drgondog
Major
KK- the key factor is that prop fighters had maxed out in performance at performance leveles below early generation jets. The USAAF planners didn't think it be a good idea to improve the 'dead end', so they put most of their eggs on the 'growth/scalable' system, and the P-51H as the Transition fighter until jets could be long range escorts
Regards,
SoD Stitch
Banned
Well, I wanted to vote for the Do 335, but it's not in the poll, so I voted for the next best aircraft, the Ta 152C.
The Ta-152H is better than the Ta-512C though, esp. if it recieved the EB engine or the same DB-603 engine as the C variant, that would've significantly increased both speed climb performance.
The best piston engined fighter of WW2 is without a doubt the Ta-152H-1, the Dora-12/13 getting honorable mentions. At 777 + km/h the Dora-13 was the fastest piston engined fighter of WW2.
The best piston engined fighter of WW2 is without a doubt the Ta-152H-1, the Dora-12/13 getting honorable mentions. At 777 + km/h the Dora-13 was the fastest piston engined fighter of WW2.
