Best (single engined) fighters of WWII

Clay_Allison · Jan 19, 2009

Catch22 said:
Yeah, but compare that to the F4U.

Interceptor - Yup, maybe not as much in the early versions, but -4s certainly.
Photo Recce - Yes, not as exstemsively used as Spit PR, but still quite capable, and they were fully functioning combat aircraft.
Ground Attack - Here it really puts the Spit to shame, as an overloaded -4 could carry 6 000lbs. They couldn't take off of carriers like that, but they could do it, and did, in Korea.
Trainer - Well, no. There was a single trainer made, but it never went into production.
Carrier Fighter - Once again, beats out the Spit here.

My only gripe with the F4U is it was hard to take off and land. I can't really give the "best ever" vote to a "widowmaker".

I'm not down on the Spitfire, It is tied for second place in my book with the P-47, but the fact that it was very hard to deploy offensively compared to the P-51 just makes me feel like it's a great plane with limitations. For its era, for the time it was designed, it was awesome though. Best plane of 1940 bar none.

Clay_Allison · Jan 19, 2009

O____O What did I do?

claidemore · Jan 19, 2009

I was under the impression the F4U-4 could carry 2 x 1000 lb bombs. Doesn't the 6000 lb figure come from the difference between max loaded weight and empty weight? Which would include fuel, gun ammo and external ordnance?

drgondog · Jan 20, 2009

claidemore said:
I was under the impression the F4U-4 could carry 2 x 1000 lb bombs. Doesn't the 6000 lb figure come from the difference between max loaded weight and empty weight? Which would include fuel, gun ammo and external ordnance?

That (2x 1000) was the factory limit load plus 8 5in rockets.

I have heard that the F4U-4 and -5 could carry one more 1000 pound bomb on CL rack but have never seen evidence that this was a standard operational doctrine.

Watanbe · Jan 20, 2009

The Spitfire for mine takes the cake it could hold its own against any opposition fighter at just about any stage from 1939-1945 excepting perhaps early dominance of the FW190A.

While it may not have been the best ground attack fighter bomber it could still perform this role rather well and prove dangerous!

It was an excellent PR aircraft and served this role with distinction.

It served in the Pacific, Western Europe and Africa all with distinction and was always a danger to any pilot who encountered it!

It wasn't used or adapted as a long range escort aircraft, but that doens't mean it didnt have the capability to be used as one with modification!

The Spitfire remained at the forefront of single piston engine fighter design from the start of the war to the end!

Catch22 · Jan 20, 2009

Yeah, the 6000lb is something I read somewhere that I can't remember, but it was by no means normal.

Waynos · Jan 20, 2009

But that is the point re the Spitfire, for me at least. The P-51 and F4U are excellent, of course they are, but what were NA and Vought building in 1936 when the Spitfire flew? Its not that it was the best at everything, nothing was, but it was up with the best for the longest time, and in its PR.XI version could be, and was, dived faster than any other piston fighter bar none, which is testament to the excellence of the airframe design and its structural integrity, if of little practical value.

I look like I'm trying to talk you guys round. I'm not. I understand your choices and anyones choice is as valid as anyone elses.

Vincenzo · Jan 20, 2009

for all:
the topic is on the bests in their time, from september '39 to september '45, only WWII combat ready fighter, camparison for air superiority mission.

Catch22 · Jan 20, 2009

Waynos said:
But that is the point re the Spitfire, for me at least. The P-51 and F4U are excellent, of course they are, but what were NA and Vought building in 1936 when the Spitfire flew? Its not that it was the best at everything, nothing was, but it was up with the best for the longest time, and in its PR.XI version could be, and was, dived faster than any other piston fighter bar none, which is testament to the excellence of the airframe design and its structural integrity, if of little practical value.

I look like I'm trying to talk you guys round. I'm not. I understand your choices and anyones choice is as valid as anyone elses.

Oh, don't worry about it, I was just simply stating why I think the F4U is better. Everyone has an opinion, and the Spit was a great plane. I didn't think you were talking me around.

drgondog · Jan 20, 2009

Waynos said:
But that is the point re the Spitfire, for me at least. The P-51 and F4U are excellent, of course they are, but what were NA and Vought building in 1936 when the Spitfire flew? Its not that it was the best at everything, nothing was, but it was up with the best for the longest time, and in its PR.XI version could be, and was, dived faster than any other piston fighter bar none, which is testament to the excellence of the airframe design and its structural integrity, if of little practical value.

I look like I'm trying to talk you guys round. I'm not. I understand your choices and anyones choice is as valid as anyone elses.

If you had to pick a fighter operational at start of WWII as 'best' it would be hard to discount the Spit. It' only real failing was long range target escort for the Battle of Germany - something it was never designed for... but neither was the Mustang or F4-U.

What separated the latter two is their adaptability to serve all the roles.

The F4u-3 and later model -5s and P51H would have been excellent interceptors even though the threat never presented itself to prioritize their accelerated development.

I lean to Spit/109 early, Spit/Fw 190 middle and P-51B/D and F4U-4 from late 1943 to end of war. There were several a/c like the Ta 152 and Me 262 and Spit XIV/XX that would have been superb but weren't in the game as difference makers in their respective Air Force/Navy...and Ta 152 wasn't a better a/c than the P-80 at the end of the war - neither contributing to the air war.

IMHO - the Me 262 was hands down the best fighter of WWII - discounting any long range roles as required to achieve that distinction.

Of all of them only the Spit and F4U flew both as Naval Air from carriers as well as land based fighters at a very high level of performance relative to each other and all others available in 1943-1945.

This is a 'charm school' question and extremely mission and time dependent - so your opinion is as valuable as anyone's.

HellToupee · Jan 20, 2009

Theres capability but wouldnt decide based on that as its simply the very latest plane before the war ended, no prop would win meteor and me262 would be top pics. Things like ground attack are nice, but fighters were only generally applied in this roll when their need in their primary roll had passed.

Amsel · Jan 20, 2009

I love roll's.

Juha · Jan 20, 2009

Hello
only a couple short notes
on Spitfire's range, while most Spits had 85 Imp gal internal fuel tankage all later types could use drop tanks and Mk VII had 121½ and Mk VIII had 124 Imp gal internal fuel tankage.

Catch 22, while later PR Spits were unarmed FR Spits had normal armament in addition to camera.

Juha

Catch22 · Jan 20, 2009

I did not know that, thanks Juha.

Venganza · Jan 20, 2009

Juha said:
Hello
only a couple short notes
on Spitfire's range, while most Spits had 85 Imp gal internal fuel tankage all later types could use drop tanks and Mk VII had 121½ and Mk VIII had 124 Imp gal internal fuel tankage.

Catch 22, while later PR Spits were unarmed FR Spits had normal armament in addition to camera.

Juha

You're right - PR = Photo Reconnaisance, FR = Fighter Reconnaisance. In terms of range, I believe the PR.XI and PR.XIX were the longest ranged Spitfires, with something like a 2,000 mile ferry range for the PR.XI and a 1,500 mile ferry range for the PR.XIX, if my failing memory serves me. Not bad range for an airplane originally designed as a short-range interceptor.

Venganza

MikeGazdik · Jan 21, 2009

How about this: 1939> Bf 109, 1940 > Spit, 1941> Fw 190, 1942> Spit MkIX, 1943> F4U, 1944> P-38J, 1945> P-51.

Waynos · Jan 21, 2009

On a year by year basis, which is I think what Vincenzo was asking (sorry!) I think mine would be;

1939 -109E, 1940 - Spitfire II, 1941 - Fw190A, 1942 - Spitfire IX, 1943 - Mustang III, 1944 - Mustang IV/, 1945 - P-80A.

Mike Gadzik, is your P-38 operating with an engine out?

I know the years of operation were not rigid like this but I believe those were probably the best overall in a given year, I so wanted to include the Tempest V in there too, and the Vampire if only we'd got on with it

Juha · Jan 21, 2009

Hello Venganza
I agree, in my message #53 I meant only Merlin powered fighters but didn't mention that, my bad. Yes, the late PR Spits had excellent range for single engined European a/c.

Hello Waynos
I also would have liked to incl. Tempest V and also Bf 109G-10 but I already had too many planes in late war timeframe.

Juha

MikeGazdik · Jan 21, 2009

Waynos said:
Mike Gadzik, is your P-38 operating with an engine out?

I -)

Ahhh! I almost followed the rules. Ok, 1944 pick will be F6F.

Vincenzo · Jan 21, 2009

Waynos said:
On a year by year basis, which is I think what Vincenzo was asking (sorry!) I think mine would be;

1939 -109E, 1940 - Spitfire II, 1941 - Fw190A, 1942 - Spitfire IX, 1943 - Mustang III, 1944 - Mustang IV/, 1945 - P-80A.

Mike Gadzik, is your P-38 operating with an engine out?

I know the years of operation were not rigid like this but I believe those were probably the best overall in a given year, I so wanted to include the Tempest V in there too, and the Vampire if only we'd got on with it

waynos p-80a was not a ready combat fighter in world war II, and i don't ask year by year this it's too simply

Best (single engined) fighters of WWII

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