best twin/triple engined bomber at outbreak world war II

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Vincenzo, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    Hi
    in http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/av...your-operational-airforce-look-like-2288.html
    i want post my dream bombers but i try difficult tell what's the best twin/triple engined bomber at time, and more difficul is the best exported.
    so i thinked see what think the community.
    for remember this is a list, maybe incomplete, of twin/triple engined bombers at time, i exclude biplane:

    Blenheim IV (and earlier) Max speed 428 km/h, empty weight 4.4 tons max weight 6.6 metric tons, internal bomb load 454 kg, engines power 1840 hp
    Hampden I 409 km/h 5.3/8.5 tons 1814 kg 1630 hp
    Wellington IA (and earlier) 377 Km/h 8.4/12.7 tons 2041 kg 1630 hp
    Whitley IVA (and earlier) 370 Km/h 8.8/15.2 tons 3175 kg 2140 hp (data for V)
    Hudson I 396 km/h 5.3/7.9 tons 454 kg 2200 hp
    Martin 139WH3a (and earlier) 388 km/h 4.7/? 1025 kg 2000 hp
    B 18A (and earlier) 347 km/h 7.4/12.6 tons 1996 kg 2000 hp
    Ki 2-II 283 km/h ?/4.7 tons 300 kg 1100 hp
    Ki 21-I 432 km/h 4.7/7.9 tons 1000 kg 1700 hp (data for Ia)
    G3M2 374 km/h 5/8 tons (only external) 2150 hp (data for model 22)
    SB Bis 3 (and earlier) 445 km/h 4.5/7.5 tons 600 kg 1920 hp
    DB 3 M 87 engine (and earlier) 439 km/h 5/9.4 tons 1000kg 1900 hp
    He 111H2 (and earlier) 405 km/h 7.7/14 tons 2000 kg 2200 hp
    Do 23 (and earlier) 260 km/h 5.6/9.2 tons 1000kg 1500 hp
    Do 17Z2 (and earlier) 424 km/h 5.2/8.8 tons 1000 kg 2000 hp
    Ju 52/3m g3e 277 km/h 5.7/10.5 tons 1500 kg 2175 hp
    Ju 86E4 (and earlier) 375 km/h 5.2/8.2 tons 1000 kg 1740 hp
    Ju 88A0 450 km/h 7.7/12.5 tons 1400 kg 2420 hp (data for A1)
    Amiot 143 295 km/h 5.5/10.4 tons 900 kg 1740 hp
    MB 131 385 km/h 6/8.6 tons 800 kg 1740 hp
    MB 200 285 km/h 4.5/7.3 tons 1200 kg 1740 hp
    MB 210 320 km/h 6.4/10.2 tons 1400 kg 1820 hp
    LeO 451 495 km/h 6.4/11.4 tons 1500 kg 2280 hp
    Potez 540 320 km/h 3.8/6.9 tons 500 kg 1580 hp
    Potez 633 440 km/h 2.9/4.3 tons 400 kg 1340 hp
    Ca 135 363 km/h 5.6/8.5 tons 1600 kg 1650 hp
    Ca 133 280 km/h 4/6.6 tons 1000 kg 1410 hp
    Ba 88 490 km/h 4.6/6.7 tons 1000 kg 2000 hp
    S.M. 79 I 430 km/h 6.8/10.5 tons 1250 kg 2370 hp
    S.M. 81 336 km/h 6.8/10.5 tons 2000 kg 2340 hp(data for version with alfa 126 engines)
    Z. 1007 430 km/h 8.2/12.2 tons 800 kg 2475 hp
    B.R. 20 432 km/h 6.4/9.9 tons 1600 kg 2000 hp
    PZL 37B (and earlier) 412 km/h 4.9/9.1 2400 kg 1940 hp
    T V 417 km/h 4.7/7.2 tons 1000 kg 1850 hp

    february 7th i delete from list all aircraft with less 400 kg of bomb load or a speed under 250 km/h

    source for data:
    british planes: British Aircraft of World War II
    american planes: American Military Aircraft
    The Glenn L. Martin Maryland Aviation Museum
    japanese army planes: Axis History Forum :: Info: Early Japanese Army Air Force Aircraft
    japanese navy plane: WWII Imperial Japanese Navy Aircraft
    soviet planes: Russian Aviation Museum
    old dornier bombers: VAR. Aviation WWII.Bombers
    Dornier Do 17: Dornier Do-17 Depot
    Junkers Ju 52/3m: WW2 Warbirds: the Junkers Ju 52 Tante Ju - Frans Bonn
    Junkers Ju 86:
    Encyklopedia broni - Niemcy - samoloty - Junkers Ju 86 : samolot bombowy.
    Junker Ju 88A-1
    WW2 Warbirds: the Junkers Ju 88 - Frans Bonn
    French planes: Aviafrance, un siècle d'aviation française - Les machines
    Italian planes: Generale B.A. Enrico Pezzi - Omaggio alla memoria
    Z. 1007 I serie: Cant Z.1007 Alcione
    P 32 II: Aerei Italiani - Scheda Tecnica - Piaggio P.32 II
    SM 81:
    Savoia Marchetti S.M.81 -
    PZL 37: P.Z.L P.37 Los War and Game
    T V: War over Holland - May 1940: the Dutch struggle
    G I: Luchtmacht: Fokker G.I (G.1) [De Slag om de Grebbeberg]
     
  2. Arsenal VG-33

    Arsenal VG-33 Member

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    Hard to tell for me. It's a long list and there are several very good aircraft to choose from. Must we pick only one?

    My favorite 3 are:

    LeO 451
    He-111
    Wellington
     
  3. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I'm not too familiar with most of those on the bottom part of your list, but if I had to pick only one, I'd go with the Ju-88.
     
  4. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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  5. freebird

    freebird Active Member

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    The He 111 the Wellington? What about these 2 Arsenal? :D

    I still think its a pity that the RAF FF never really got to use some of the excellent French aircraft in the early war years....
     

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  6. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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  7. Arsenal VG-33

    Arsenal VG-33 Member

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    freebird,

    The MB 174 is an excellent aircraft, but it wasn't on the list. Besides, the MB 174 was a smaller, multi-role plane. Had it abeen a choice of "best multi-role aircraft", I would have picked the 174 at once. I tend to view the Potez 630-633 series aircraft in much the same way.

    For some reason, I've always liked the Wellington. Something about it's construction thats very interesting. I don't think it got the credit it deserved during early-war actions.
     
  8. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    MB 174 wasn't in the list because wasn't operational in september 1939.
    if a plane was operational at time can be choice, also if isn't in the list, i added it.
     
  9. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Well, it looks like I have more homework to do. Besides Wiki, do you know a good site to learn about these other aircraft?
     
  10. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Ju 88 for me....

    I think it was the fastest and carried the best bomb load out of all listed.
     
  11. freebird

    freebird Active Member

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    Was the LeO 451 not superior in both to the Ju-88? The only advantage that the Ju-88 had was that it was multi-role.
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I show the Ju 88 with a top speed of over 300 mph with a 5000 lb bomb load. The LeO 451 seemed to have about the same defensive armament and its max bomb load was about 2000 pounds less - of couse all this depended on range and mission profile.
     
  13. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    for true Leo 451 is fastest of Ju 88A1, and for bomb load i'm not sure but maybe best also the He 111H2.

    if my info are in right. the fastest in the list are: Leo 451, Ba 88, Fokker G I (maybe not in this order, they are that run over 450 km/h). see the many trouble of Ba 88 and the small bomb load of fokker (and it's the slowest of three), i think that Leo 451 is surely fastest bomber (2/3 engines) in outbreak of WW II.
    for usefull load (bomb and fuel) it is more complicated, source discordant, aircraft weights range is large (max from ~4 to ~15 tons, empty from ~2.5 to ~9 tons) maybe usefull divide in light and medium bomber for a comparation.
     
  14. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I show the Ju 88 A1 with a top speed of 510 km/h at 4,750 m (317 mph at 15,600 ft).
     
  15. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    what's the source of speed of ju 88a1?
    AFAIK the max speed is 450 km/h
     
  16. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Wiki shows speeds over 450km/h but they may be confusing variants but list sources.

    Performance
    Maximum speed: 510 km/h at 4,750 m (317 mph at 15,600 ft)
    Range: 2,108 km (1,310 mi)
    Service ceiling 9,080 m (29,800 ft)
    Rate of climb: m/s (ft/min)

    Dressel, Joachim and Griehl Manfred. Bombers of the Luftwaffe. London: Arms and Armour (DAG Publications), 1994. ISBN 1-85409-140-9.
    Feist, Uwe. Junkers Ju 88 in action. Carrollton,Texas: Squadron/Signal Publications, 1974. ISBN 3-79090-026-5.
    Taylor, John W.R. "Junkers Ju 88." Combat Aircraft of the World from 1909 to the present. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1969. ISBN 0-425-03633-2.
    Verlag, Kaiser. Die großen Luftschlachten des Zweiten Weltkriegs: Flugzeuge - Erfolge - Niederlagen (in German). Gebunden, Germany: Neuer Kaiser Vlg GmbH, 1994. ISBN 3-7043-6029-5.
    Winchester, Jim. "Junkers Ju 88". Aircraft of World War II. London: Grange Books, 2004. ISBN 1-84013-639-1.


    This site shows just under 300 mph

    WW2 Warbirds: the Junkers Ju 88 - Frans Bonn

    In either case evidence still shows it was faster than the Leo 451
     
  17. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    wiki alone is not a source all can write on,
    the Bonn site report 450 km/h for A1
     
  18. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    The GI was merely a fighterbomber instead of a bomber. The T.V was not very good, being quite slow (430 km/h) and no selfsealing tanks.
    The wellington was quite good with a goos range and sturdy, but had lack of defensive armament.
    I would go with the J88 or the He111 although the PZL was quite good as well.
     
  19. Arsenal VG-33

    Arsenal VG-33 Member

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    One of my reference books, "Rand McNally Encyclopedia of Military aircraft - 1914 to present" shows the LeO.451 superior to the Ju-88A1 in speed, bomb load and range.


    Ju-88A1---------LeO.451

    Max. speed: 280mph vs. 307mph
    Max Bombs: 3,960lbs vs. 4,400lbs
    Max range: 1,056 miles vs. 1,430 miles
     
  20. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Interesting - I wonder if we could find a POH for each aircraft and compare. Outside the "Wiki" reference I show the max speeds on both aircraft varying with bomb load and altitude.
    BTW "Wiki" shows the 451 at 300 mph @ 13,255'. It also lists these sources;

    Danel, Raymond and Cuny, Jean LeO 45, Amiot 350 et autre B4 Docavia n°23, Editions Larivière
    Danel, Raymond and Cuny, Jean L'aviation française de bombardement et de renseignement 1918-1940 Docavia n°12, Editions Larivière
    Ehrengardt, Christian-Jacques Le bombardement français, tome I: 1939/1940, Aéro-Journal Hors-Série N°5
    Notice descriptive et d'utilisation de l'avion LeO. 451 à moteurs Gnome et Rhône 14N, SNCASE, 1939
     
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