FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
That's only the preamble. Most-1s of the day had similar propaganda in them. The rest of the manual is pretty comprehensive.
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I am surprised that such a document was actually handed to pilots, it reads like a pathe news soundtrack. I would have thought it should be full of instructions and procedures limits and parameters not a kind of sales pitch.
That's only the preamble. Most-1s of the day had similar propaganda in them. The rest of the manual is pretty comprehensive.
And this is based on "claims" (JoeB will chime in here soon). I'm sure the actual score is more like 2 to 1 or 1 to 1.
No it's not, Daniel Ford's book Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942. cut through the bs claims and got to the hard facts. The Tigers actually shot down around 115 which would put them above a 3-1 ratio.
For the Tigers, not the rest of the P-40 operators, and I believe the AVG "actuals" (the 115 aircraft you mention) includes all types of aircraft. nit just fighter-to-fighter engagments. Their record was still commendable.
I've read some units obtained an overall 3-1 ratio flying the P-40, but would be interested in seeing the evidence about it versing the 109.
??? I was replying to your response to my following statement:
I did not say anything about all P-40's achevied this, and never said anything about fighter vs fighter
I dont think it is unusual to overestimate anyway almost all forces did.
So where that leaves Hartmann kameraden: are their 200 300+ claims just that, or real, cross-checked kills?
Based on rational criteria of ease of production, scope of production, loss ratios and meeting the original purpose of the design, nothing beats the C47. Unglamorous but if you look up in the sky in 2010, you'll still see one or two flying.
Based on your criteria, the SBDs were the best. What other aircraft at that time could have done what they did at Midway? It would be unfair to compare them to other bomber-fighters, such as the F6F, as the F6F wasn't around at that time. What's the best motor vehicle? Is it the Ford T-Bird? How can one even compare that to the Lamborghini Murcielago? How can one even compare either of those to the Chevy F-10 pickup? The Zeroes were the best fighters in the Pacific, but still, the FM2s, even the earlier F4Fs, with guys like Joe Foss at the stick, downed their share of them. Put the aircraft in its element, with a crack pilot, and every one of these aircraft could do the job, and, indeed, they did.A lot of factors go into "best". Ease of production, scope of production, performance and most of all, the more esoteric question of how it did in the role INTENDED FOR IT. Did the C-47 do everything it was intended to do and more? How about the P51 and Spitfire? The B-17 and Lancaster and B-24? They ALL performed up to spec and did what they were supposed to do. They soldiered on, endured and won through. Obviously no German, Italian, French, or Japanese aircraft did these things as well because they LOST. In the end you are left with the C47, Spitfire and Mustang, all of whom won their wars doing their "thing". Now you have to decide one thing only: is the greatest DEFENSIVE fighter better than the greatest WAR WINNING fighter and or are either better than the plane that transported the allies everywhere right up to DDay and beyond and are flying commercial flights even today?
Based on rational criteria of ease of production, scope of production, loss ratios and meeting the original purpose of the design, nothing beats the C47. Unglamorous but if you look up in the sky in 2010, you'll still see one or two flying.
Based on your criteria, the SBDs were the best. What other aircraft at that time could have done what they did at Midway? It would be unfair to compare them to other bomber-fighters, such as the F6F, as the F6F wasn't around at that time. What's the best motor vehicle? Is it the Ford T-Bird? How can one even compare that to the Lamborghini Murcielago? How can one even compare either of those to the Chevy F-10 pickup? The Zeroes were the best fighters in the Pacific, but still, the FM2s, even the earlier F4Fs, with guys like Joe Foss at the stick, downed their share of them. Put the aircraft in its element, with a crack pilot, and every one of these aircraft could do the job, and, indeed, they did.
Hey, I'm just sayin'...
I beg your pardon but I'm at a loss as to how you seem to have inferred from my innocent comment that it was deserving of such a crass reply. The point I was trying to make was that when you're rating anything you pay attention to the period and the suitability of the item to the task at hand. What other aircraft, in June, 1942, could have made a 60-degree dive on an enemy warship with a 1000 pound explosive under its belly, dropped that on its target, then got out of there, safely, and while being shot at from every conceivable direction? I don't know of any other period aircraft that could have done that like the SBD had. That, in my opinion, make's it the best, at that time. If you should think I'm mistaken, endeavor to teach me something. Just make it intelligible, this time, and I'm all ears.And entitled to your opinion...
In the mean time as I attend a Twin Otter maintenance familiarization course in Toronto, I meet a fellow student who works out of North Carolina at a place that has a several Twin Otters, some King Airs, a few other corp jets, and oh yea, a DC-3 that was around during the war. Its used regularly so he tells me...
Hey, I'm just sayin'....
I beg your pardon but I'm at a loss as to how you seem to have inferred from my innocent comment that it was deserving of such a crass reply. The point I was trying to make was that when you're rating anything you pay attention to the period and the suitability of the item to the task at hand. What other aircraft, in June, 1942, could have made a 60-degree dive on an enemy warship with a 1000 pound explosive under its belly, dropped that on its target, then got out of there, safely, and while being shot at from every conceivable direction? I don't know of any other period aircraft that could have done that like the SBD had. That, in my opinion, make's it the best, at that time. If you should think I'm mistaken, endeavor to teach me something. Just make it intelligible, this time, and I'm all ears.