Best World war two warships?

[KraziKanuK]

You don't know the difference between an island and a bird sanctuary/nationial park(Bonaventure Island and Percé Rock National Park)?

There is also a historical reference to the name of the RCN carrier as Gaspe (which nearby) was the major base for the Battle of the St Lawrence.

This is how these myths get started.

 

[Nonskimmer]

KK, I know all that. The reference to the bird sanctuary was more of a joke, because anyone who knows anything about the history of the Bonnie (the ship) knows of the sanctuary on Bonaventure Island, and it's always come to be synonamous with the name of the carrier in Navy circles. Sort of an inside joke. The idea being that other navies had carriers with names like HMS Invincible, USS Ranger, etc. You know, powerful sounding names, while we have one named for a bird sanctuary. The entire island was a bird sanctuary. If you really want to be a smart ass about it, Percé Rock National Park didn't exist until the mid-eighties. The ship was named in the late fifties. It was just kind of a running gag for many years.

Man, you really know how to suck the fun right out of a thread, don't ya?

 

[pbfoot]

well its better then Vikrant

 

[Nonskimmer]

Heh. Good point.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Yes I figured you were making a joke, but as I said you have started a new www myth. Canada and its military is the butt end of enough jokes without your 'joke' adding more ammo.

As to #7 Partol Boat, nothing compares to the German Schnellboots. They were better armed, faster in all kinds of weather and were diesel powered.

 

[Nonskimmer]

Yes I figured you were making a joke, but as I said you have started a new www myth. Canada and its military is the butt end of enough jokes without your 'joke' adding more ammo.

Ummm...I think you sorta missed the point. It wasn't merely a joke or a myth. It was usually brought up in a joking manner, but it was actually true. Yes, the ship was named for Bonaventure Island...which was a bird sanctuary. Get it? It needs no fuel really, it makes a fine joke all on it's own.

Sure the Canadian Forces are the butt of jokes. There's good reason for that y'know. It's 'cuz we are a joke. We've been a joke for years, and a pretty sad one to boot. In fact, it's always been my experience that the ones who joke about it the most are the members themselves, because for the most part the general public is too ignorant to know any better. Hell, until the Chicoutimi fire a lot of folks in Ontario and Manitoba didn't even know we had a Navy.

And yes, the German Schnellboots were without a doubt the best of their class.

 

[Henk]

The Bismarck were never sunk by a torpedo and the Hood is not a battleship but a battlecruiser. Look at her armour and then you would see what I mean. Yes she had 15 inch guns but her armour were to bad.

If you look at the wreck of the Bismarck you would see she did not sink from any torpedo's, she was scuttled.

Henk

 

[syscom3]

I'd say the best WW2 ship was the "victory" ship and the T-2 tanker (ship).

Without them, the allied victories would have been near impossible.

 

[delcyros]

Very wisely choosen, Syscom. (Still I believe there never was any possibility for the axis to win ww2. I wouldn´t like a szenario with winning axis anyway...)

I am going to compare Yamato and Iowa in detail, will submit an article as pdf file in within a week or so if all goes well. Emphasis is put on armourlayout and capabilities to penetrate vice versa. Hope this will add some points to discuss.

 

[Henk]

Can not wait to see it.

Henk

 

[Twitch]

Re: AAA defense. Regardless of caliber it was the proximity fuse that turned the tide there.

 

[delcyros]

I second this. But the improvements in US firecontroll contributed also a lot (especcially with the worse ballistics of the 5"/38 in mind).

 

[carpenoctem1689]

I agree with the statements that hood was a battelcruiser, because from the outset thats what she was...when world war two, or even two or three years before, she was in serious, and i re-state serious need of refit. She was losing some speed that is essential to a battlecruiser, she needed more armor, on decks especially, and more AA armament.

As for the comparison of Yamato and Iowa, i wrote one as well, turned out really long too, but as luck would have it, the computer crashed...Long stpry short, if the Iowa could keep the range very distant, about the max of its range, it could stand a damn good chance, but if it closed range with yamato, which would seem likely, yamatos 18in guns would have more penetration power, the optical sights, the most advanced ever, hands down, would come into play as much as radar, and the heavier armor and tighter turning radius would give yamato an advantage..and if range closed more, yamato had good secondary armament as well. I seriously, seriously doubt Iowa could stand up to the aircraft Yamato or Musashi were swamped by, hell half of them. Iowa lacked underwater protection, and one must remember how many torpedoes hit yamato and musashi
http://www.chuckhawks.com/yamato.jpg

yamato just looks mean doesnt she?

 

[Henk]

Yes, the Yamato were a mean sun of a gun, but how many Battleships did the US not have and how many had Japan have in WW2? Remember the fact that you have large guns does not make or break a situation when you are in battle. The crew makes or break the battle and the speed of your ship. If you can maneuver your ship right and your crew fight and handle your equipment right you have a big chance. Look at the profile of the Yamato you will see the bridge and controle station of the ship stand out like a tree in the desert and if you take out that, you are screwed, dead in the water and you would not be able to fire your guns correctly.

The US ships like the Iowa has a low profile and thus not such a big chance of getting hit like the Yamato and everything of the Yamato is bundled up together, that is not good.

Yes, the Yamato has large guns and great secondary, but her design is not for me when it comes to one on one battleship action.

So I would say that I would rather have smaller guns, but if the enemy have a problem hitting me I would take that chance with the guns.

Henk

 

[carpenoctem1689]

I would imagine Yamatos crew would be relatively well trained in their ship, because they would have been on it for some time, getting to know the ship. I would have to agree about everything being to cluttered on the decks of her though, she is vulnerable in that respect. Alot of one on one combat would come down to luck, and a ton of variables that could tip the balance in the favor of eitehr competitor. For example, Iowas are thought to be wet ships in high seas, where as yamato would be a dryer, steadier platform. Thats just one of a million examples. Heres another, the battle starts when one ship runs from the other ( i would say yamato might run, even though it seems so against the bushido code and honor system) because she might fear the ever present reinforcements advantaged to the allies, through air and sea power. Therefore you would have two triple turrets on iowa firing at yamato, while yamatos single triple turret woudl return fire. sure after she was caught and knew running wouldnt cut it because she's already in range she would turn and fight, but that just gave iowa the advatage, cause now she is in control of the fight, fired more salvos, they seem like they would hit from distance, on a big target, only firing back with one turret in return...reverse the situation and its the same thing. variable are a big factor

 

[Henk]

That sounds great, I would love to see a battle like that. You do have a great sense of battleships. I design them and I am still a appie when it comes to designing them.

Yes that would probaly be the suttuation and the US Navy would always have renforcemts to help them and a aircraft carrier nearby.

The Jap Navy should have had more brains.

Henk

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Thanks for the compliment, not really used to those...I would like to think i know something about battleships, because i am amazed by them, the size, the firepower, the weight...truly astonishing things. You design them?

Just starting a model of the bismarck right now, some cheap, 20$ lindberg model i saw sitting around, in 1/350 scale. Nice sized ship, but the molding was really poor and on the box it says tirpitz, but it seems more like bismarck to me. Being only my second model ship ever, it wont be too good, mostly because i have no idea how to paint models v.v oh well

 

[Hop]

No torpedos rubtured her hull. The torpedos effectivly sealed her fate because they jammed her rudder so that she could only go in circles. The surviving sailors of the Bismark say that she was scuttled to keep the British from saying that they sunk the Bismark (even though at that point she was not able to fight back anymore because her armament was all destroyed but no shells penetrated her vital areas). Robert Ballard actually proved (if you read his book and watch his movie about it he explains it and shows it in pictures and video) that it was scuttled because all the holes that would have allowed water to come into the ship and sink it were blown out by explosions set from the inside.

AFAIK both Ballard and Cameron agree that whilst Bismarck was scuttled, she was already sinking before the scuttling charges were fired, and they merely hastened her end.

She was already badly ablaze, with shells having penetrated at least two of the boiler rooms, causing oil fires, her magazines had been flooded to prevent explosion, and all her main turrets had been knocked out. Survivors reported that in some cases they were unable to enter machinery compartments to place scuttling charges because the compartments were already flooded.

BTW, I don't think Ballard claimed the holes were blown from the inside, scuttling charges are small devices placed on pipes and sea cocks, not large charges that blow through the hull.

 

[Henk]

Well mate look what happend to the Admiral Graff Spee. Have you read the book of Ballard The Discovery of the Bismarck?

Yes carpenoctem1689 I design Battleships myself and I design my own systems to make my ships totally a floating fortress and can fire from all sides. I must still learn a lot and are just doing it as a hobby and it makes me relax and takes my mind of everything around me. Well maybe my designs will not stand up to modern naval combat, but I still love to design them.

I understand what you mean when you say that Battleships are truly astonishing things. I love battleships.

Henk

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Wow, thats awesome that you design your own. Ive come up with ideas, and made some rough sketches, but never took it ant further than that. are any of your designs posted on the web?