Best WW2 plane for Ukraine today?

wlewisiii · Mar 31, 2022

Back in the early 80's, before I even joined the US Army and still hoped to get into the warrant flight program, I read an article in an army journal proposing to use small gyrocopters - like the one in Mad Max - that could just lift one Hellfire missile each. A forward unit could provide laser designation and the little gyros could come in from all directions essentially undetectable compared to full size attack helicopters. The idea in it was to provide air support cheaply for an insurgency. A GPMG like the PK or the M240 could be slung under the gyro easily as well.

Jagdflieger · Mar 31, 2022

SaparotRob said:
I think the thread is going for what WW II aircraft might be usable today for Ukraine, not what could take on the VKS directly. That's how I interpret it. B-29 was part of the "measure/counter measure" development tree that lead to the high altitude no-man's land. There are a few prop planes from WW II that would be good for counter insurgency missions. Those, however, would probably be meat on the table for today's MANPADs and really can only be used in uncontested airspace. Ukraine needs a boatload of F-16s or F/A-18s. We know how Putin honors commitments so F-35's are out. Besides, no time to train air and ground crews. They have to think outside the box. Something like an ultra light. Sneak it in close to the bad guy lines, assemble in any of many wrecked structures and used in unconventional means. Lawn mower engines are far less maintenance heavy than a Merlin or an R-3350. I'll go out on a limb and say a lawn mower engine uses a bit less fuel than an Allison V-1710. I'm not an FAA licensed mechanic so I don't know for sure. Ukraine seems to be using unconventional tactics. Hence my idea of a "Rosie the Rocketeer".

In that case I would opt for a "Flying Tiger" wing taking hold of the A-10 - should be enough to make the Czar crawl back in his weekend-house and feed his horse.

Regards
Jagdflieger

GrauGeist · Mar 31, 2022

So far, this war has seen more missile action than aircraft, so perhaps the V-2 might be appropiate?

With today's satellite system providing real time feedback, the aiming and strike verification would make them far more accurate than they were in WWII.

Jagdflieger · Mar 31, 2022

GrauGeist said:
So far, this war has seen more missile action than aircraft, so perhaps the V-2 might be appropiate?

With today's satellite system providing real time feedback, the aiming and strike verification would make them far more accurate than they were in WWII.

I don't think that hitting/targeting ones own country with V-2's is a viable solution - and hitting Russian territory with V-2's might just give the Czar what he wants,

Regards
Jagdflieger

vikingBerserker · Mar 31, 2022

Since it first flew during WW2, I'd say A-1 Skyraider

Admiral Beez · Mar 31, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
But; what Russian aircraft's and especially AA units are these WW2 planes supposed to face? it was mentioned Russia/today - then it's not going to be a fruitful enterprise.

Up until February 2022 everyone feared the Russia army and the might of their modernized mechanized forces. Turns out the entire army was built upon a foundation of sand. I'm not going to assume their 21st century AA units are any better.

Jagdflieger · Mar 31, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Up until February 2022 everyone feared the Russia army and the might of their modernized mechanized forces. Turns out the entire army was built upon a foundation of sand. I'm not going to assume their 21st century AA units are any better.

I for my part never believed in the hype generated about Russia's conventional military capability - always said at most they can move 5 well equipped divisions and the other 2-3 Putin
needs to guarantee his personal safety in Russia - the rest of the army is just on paper, and the Russian Air-force is even more of a paper tiger then the ground forces.

But modern AA units and man-pads, even Russian ones manned by second grade soldiers would reap havoc onto a WW2 equipped air-force.

Regards
Jagdflieger

GrauGeist · Mar 31, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
I don't think that hitting/targeting ones own country with V-2's is a viable solution - and hitting Russian territory with V-2's might just give the Czar what he wants,

Regards
Jagdflieger

The Ukrainian Army is already hitting Russian targets with missiles including the Tochka.

How would the V-2 be any different?

Jagdflieger · Mar 31, 2022

GrauGeist said:
The Ukrainian Army is already hitting Russian targets with missiles including the Tochka.

How would the V-2 be any different?

If we talk about the original weapon or system:
That a V-2 was inaccurate as hell - instead of hitting vehicles or military targets it would probably rather wipe out civilian occupied city blocks and nearby strawberry farms.

if you modernize a V-2 then whats the point? Thats like saying an A-26 with jet engines and laser-guided bombs - no?

Regards
Jagdflieger

SaparotRob · Mar 31, 2022

The A-4 is excellent at sending a message.

Jagdflieger · Mar 31, 2022

SaparotRob said:
The A-4 is excellent at sending a message.

Certainly good enough to make Putins boys run home.

Regards
Jagdflieger

GrauGeist · Mar 31, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
That a V-2 was inaccurate as hell - instead of hitting vehicles or military targets it would probably rather wipe out civilian occupied city blocks and nearby strawberry farms.

Regards
Jagdflieger

The V-2 was accurate when the Germans had correct targeting information.

If you'll go back and read my original comment, you'll see that I mentioned real-time satellite information used for target correction.

During WWII, the Germans were given false target results, which kept the V-2's targeting from being accurate.

Jagdflieger · Mar 31, 2022

GrauGeist said:
The V-2 was accurate when the Germans had correct targeting information.

If you'll go back and read my original comment, you'll see that I mentioned real-time satellite information used for target correction.

During WWII, the Germans were given false target results, which kept the V-2's targeting from being accurate.

IIRC the accuracy was theoretically around 500-800m - most of them missed their target by miles, the wrong target results were used by the British to make the Germans miss London central and to demoralize Hitler in regards to actually achieved hits.
Even the Pershing I unit I served in the Bundeswehr for some time was rated at 300-500m. *with a nuke warhead".

Regards
Jagdflieger

GrauGeist · Mar 31, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
IIRC the accuracy was theoretically around 500-800m - most of them missed their target by miles, the wrong target results were used by the British to make the Germans miss London central and to demoralize Hitler in regards to actually achieved hits.
Even the Pershing I unit I served in the Bundeswehr for some time was rated at 300-500m. *with a nuke warhead".

Regards
Jagdflieger

Lots of pervasive myths about the V-2, it's inaccuracy being one of them.

To learn more about what the V-2 was actually capable of, read here:

The Myth of V2 Inaccuracy and Ineffectiveness

soc.history.war.world-war-ii.narkive.com

Also, I'm going to think that if the V-2 were used today, there is a good chance that it's guidance system may be modern.

This thread is about WWII weapons being used in a current war setting. If we want to talk about accuracy and discounting a particular aircraft (or weapon system) on that basis, then the B-17, B-29, etc. must be ruled out, too.

Admiral Beez · Mar 31, 2022

GrauGeist said:
How would the V-2 be any different?

V-2 is not an piloted aircraft. Can we try to stay on topic?

Dash119 · Mar 31, 2022

How effective would heat seekers be against internal combustion powered aircraft? Seems like the heat signature would be significantly lower than that of a gas turbine.

SaparotRob · Mar 31, 2022

I was thinking about that yesterday. I imagined one of our Forum members flying Rosie The Rocketeer and holding a lit Roman candle out the window as a flare dispenser.

nuuumannn · Mar 31, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Hmm…. Lancasters dropping 22,000 lb Grand Slam earthquake bombs on the Kremlin?

Harris: "Do it".

Snautzer01 · Mar 31, 2022

SaparotRob said:
I was thinking about that yesterday. I imagined one of our Forum members flying Rosie The Rocketeer and holding a lit Roman candle out the window as a flare dispenser.

I am in!

Thumpalumpacus · Mar 31, 2022

SaparotRob said:
The A-4 is excellent at sending a message.

I loves me some Scooter.

Best WW2 plane for Ukraine today?

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