Bf-109 camo patterns?

[Ralph Haus]

Banging around the net, looking for color equivalents (mfgs. comparisons) and stumbled on this post. Its from Britmodeller from a year or so back. Any comments on the article and the suggestions that the camo on the Bf-109s can have other than straight edges for the upper pattern?

Camouflage on German aircraft post 1941

Hallo you all See this drawings! I would like to discuss with you the camouflage on German aircraft. Specially after 1941 to 1945. This time, the aircrafts had the cockpit painted in RLM 66. The camouflage on the outer surfaces, wings and fuselage and rudders should be in our focus. I found some ...

www.britmodeller.com

Always need a good debate to start a new month off!

 

[al49]

Hello, I would suggest to purchase one of these books, if still available somewhere. The second one can be quite expensive.
Alberto

 

[Ralph Haus]

Hello, I would suggest to purchase one of these books, if still available somewhere. The second one can be quite expensive.
Alberto

Thanks for the reference, I'll look into finding some of these. But I was just wondering about the validity of the 'jagged' edges vs straight on the camo paint lines. I suppose one of these books may enlighten?

 

[CATCH 22]

Banging around the net, looking for color equivalents (mfgs. comparisons) and stumbled on this post. Its from Britmodeller from a year or so back. Any comments on the article and the suggestions that the camo on the Bf-109s can have other than straight edges for the upper pattern?

Camouflage on German aircraft post 1941

Hallo you all See this drawings! I would like to discuss with you the camouflage on German aircraft. Specially after 1941 to 1945. This time, the aircrafts had the cockpit painted in RLM 66. The camouflage on the outer surfaces, wings and fuselage and rudders should be in our focus. I found some ...

www.britmodeller.com

Always need a good debate to start a new month off!

Ralph, please check this site:

Chosing the correct wingpattern for a Bf109G-6

The Bf109G-6 was manufactured at three different factories in Germany (and one in Hungary which is outside the scope of this post), each wi...

theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com

There are 3 main camo types of Bf 109G-6 based on the manufacturer/factory.
I'm (almost 100%) sure that the a/c you are building (white 9 of Mojsics) is a Regensburg-built 'Gustav' with some additional darker mottling on the fuselage sides resp. overpainted old number:

The above information was collected for a fellow modeller 5-6 years ago, giving him the idea to search for important/visible elements of the 3 different types of camo, when identifying a Bf 109G.
Cheers!

 

[Ralph Haus]

Very Interesting. The Regensburg image in the article does appear to match closely to my Gustav. Looking at the shapes of the camo on the upper wings, they are really close to what the image has. Although, I suppose, the start and ending of the spin scallops can and did vary some?

What also got my attention, I have noticed before and ignored, is the scalloping of the leading wing edges; I have always taped a straight line near center of the edge. Is this scalloping common on all Bf-109's and I have just been painting them wrong? Or just this series, G6? I can faintly make out scallops on the wing edge in the photo.

 

[CATCH 22]

Very Interesting. The Regensburg image in the article does appear to match closely to my Gustav. Looking at the shapes of the camo on the upper wings, they are really close to what the image has. Although, I suppose, the start and ending of the spin scallops can and did vary some?

What also got my attention, I have noticed before and ignored, is the scalloping of the leading wing edges; I have always taped a straight line near center of the edge. Is this scalloping common on all Bf-109's and I have just been painting them wrong? Or just this series, G6? I can faintly make out scallops on the wing edge in the photo.
View attachment 685603

The pattern around the cockpit can vary but it's always dark (RLM 74) in the Regensburg variant. IMHO the leading edge scallops are not seen before G-6 and they are not always so uniform as in the drawing. On the photo I posted one can see them well. Check this site (scroll to bottom) with some interesting additions (I know you like those!) about the camo of this particular a/c.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Very interesting site, thank you. A lot to take in. This one image certainly illustrates the scalloping on the wing leading edge. Now to get a bit better with the airbrush and making splotches. Might wind up doing the Q-tip trick. May not have as sharp an edge??? We'll see.

Also I notice the wheel wells are RLM 76 as is the landing gear. Many articles 'insist' that the wheel wells were RLM 02 (with some exceptions), but the gear certainly was RLM 02? Restoration liberties??

 

[CATCH 22]

Very interesting site, thank you. A lot to take in. This one image certainly illustrates the scalloping on the wing leading edge. Now to get a bit better with the airbrush and making splotches. Might wind up doing the Q-tip trick. May not have as sharp an edge??? We'll see.

Also I notice the wheel wells are RLM 76 as is the landing gear. Many articles 'insist' that the wheel wells were RLM 02 (with some exceptions), but the gear certainly was RLM 02? Restoration liberties??
View attachment 685618

I think they just had some affection for the RLM 76.
IMHO neither the wheel struts, nor the inside of the wheel doors nor the wheel wells should be in this tone. There are better restorations though - see attached.

BTW I found something in my archive that might help you: masks for all types of G-6 camos as per the above discussed link and profiles. These are obviously standard masks and somebody produces them (forgot who), but one can use some made out of painter's or Tamiya-tape. Attached find the Regensburg-pattern.
Cheers!

 

[Ralph Haus]

Again....amazing information. Now if I can make use of it on the model. Thank you.

 

[southerndoug]

Interesting thread Ralph, thanks for posting the link. I'm leaning towards the "allowable tolerance" theory rather than the sawtooth pattern. Agree with some of the posters that it would be very difficult to do without masking, and trying to free spray a jagged line like that would also be difficult and potentially messy. Both would be time consuming too. Cheers

 

[Crimea_River]

Oh goody! Another rabbit hole on LW camouflage!

 

[fubar57]

This was my attempt at the leading edges on a Slovakian G-6. Not totally accurate but good enough for me

 

[Ralph Haus]

This certainly makes trying to keep a painted leading edge even easier. Looks like just for certain Gustavs though. i'll have to dig deeper, but could not the 'wave' pattern be rounded with both camo colors, as opposed to the darker color from the top dipping down?

 

[fubar57]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this but if you want to go nuts..... RLMColorsPt1

 

[Wurger]

The pattern on the wing leading edges could vary. It could be more regular/irregular or just randome. One had the "waves" going more down towards the undersides or less and being almost a straight line. There was no rule.

the pic source; the net.

 

[Wurger]

Other variants of Gustav had them different too.

the pic source; th enet.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Other variants of Gustav had them different too.

View attachment 686355

View attachment 686356

View attachment 686357

View attachment 686354
the pic source; th enet.

Sure does open up options, and avoids any 'non-compliance' application issues. And if you have had a chance to read the attachment that George supplied, colors may be somewhat of a gray area as well!! Not really, but an interesting article.

 

[Ralph Haus]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this but if you want to go nuts..... RLMColorsPt1

Who pays attention to accuracy anymore?? Certainly an interesting read and enlightening as well. Must have been a real challenge near the end to do anything in conformance to the 'rules'. I'll try and find additional info from Green, the author. Especially the referenced images. Thanks for the link.

 

[Wurger]

Sure does open up options, and avoids any 'non-compliance' application issues. And if you have had a chance to read the attachment that George supplied, colors may be somewhat of a gray area as well!! Not really, but an interesting article.

If you mean the top camo, the colours for the G-6 should be the RLM74/75. Both paints were the grey coats. The RLM 75 was called Grauviolett while the RLM 74 was named Graugrun. Certainly there were exceptions but the colour set was the main one.

Here is an example ...

the source: the net.

And here ...

the source: EXITO DECALS ED72001 - 1:72 Gustavs Over The Balkans - Messerschmitt Bf109G-6

 

[Ralph Haus]

If you mean the top camo, the colours for the G-6 should be the RLM74/75. Both paints were the grey coats. The RLM 75 was called Grauviolett while the RLM 74 was named Graugrun. Certainly there were exceptions but the colour set was the main one.

Here is an example ...

View attachment 686362
the source: the net.

And here ...

View attachment 686363

View attachment 686364
the source: EXITO DECALS ED72001 - 1:72 Gustavs Over The Balkans - Messerschmitt Bf109G-6

I should have been clearer. I was referring to the wing leading edge color division line placements, not the colors. Sorry. But the introduction of the RLM 80s, and their mixing, is interesting. By 'gray area' I was not refering to the applied colors. Just an expression used in the US to define a questionable answer.