Bf 109 or Fw 190 coded "0" JG51?

le_steph40 · Jan 11, 2021

Hello,
I'm searching pictures of a Bf 109 or a Fw 190 wearing code "0" belonging to the III./JG51 during 1942-43. It seems that it was a common practice in this unit but I didn't succeed to find any photos of that.
Any help please ?
TIA

Steph

Crimea_River · Jan 11, 2021

Like this? Дети из освобожденной деревни под Глуховым сидят на сбитом немецком истребителе

le_steph40 · Jan 11, 2021

Hummmmmmmm, maybe...
But now, I'm confused: I thought it was code "0" (zero), but it's "o" (letter o) on the picture you posted...

Crimea_River · Jan 11, 2021

I am only going by what the caption said but it could of course be wrong. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by the request either. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall seeing aircraft with an odd 0 or O with horizontal lines above and below (I think?) but my look through one of my picture books on JG51 got no hits. Are you sure it was that unit?

fubar57 · Jan 11, 2021

So far I have found an Fw 190A-6 with a "0", "0✙|", but no squadron. Werkenummer 530827. When done all the books, I'll PM them to Steph and whoever else wants to see them

Crimea_River · Jan 11, 2021

The symbol I'm thinking of looks like a small "o" with a capital "I" through the center.

fubar57 · Jan 11, 2021

I just learned how to make that Ø

Crimea_River · Jan 11, 2021

Close but the I is vertical. Going from memory:

le_steph40 · Jan 11, 2021

Crimea_River said:
I am only going by what the caption said but it could of course be wrong. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by the request either. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall seeing aircraft with an odd 0 or O with horizontal lines above and below (I think?) but my look through one of my picture books on JG51 got no hits. Are you sure it was that unit?

Yes Andy, these informations are from the books "Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945" teil 9/II for Bf 109F-2 Wnr.8240 coded "white 0" flown by Karl-Heinz Weber during Summer 1942 and teil 12/II for several Fw 190A-5/6 including a Fw 190A-5 Wnr.410040 flown by Gunther Schack and 30% damaged by flack on 05.10.43. Others Fw 190A-5/6 (or Wnr.410040 repared) flown by these two Aces belonging to the III./JG51 during October 1943.
Point of detail, the Bf 109F-2 Wnr.8240 is sometimes described as the one flown by Walter Oesau, GruppenKommandeur III./JG3, at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa and 40% damaged during dogfight on 07.07.41.

mjfur · Jan 11, 2021

FalkeEins - the Luftwaffe blog: Stabsschwarm JG 51 Russland Feldflugplatz - ebay photo find #262
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cf/0a/f8/cf0af8322c0f3e2b914a5f3736d140ee.jpg
FalkeEins - the Luftwaffe blog: Fw 190s of I./JG 51 Heinrich Krafft - Ebay Luftwaffe photo find

CATCH 22 · Jan 11, 2021

Crimea_River said:
Close but the I is vertical. Going from memory:

View attachment 608621

That's the Greek letter phi or the Cyrillic F. Was this really a marking on a German plane?

CATCH 22 · Jan 11, 2021

mjfur said:
FalkeEins - the Luftwaffe blog: Stabsschwarm JG 51 Russland Feldflugplatz - ebay photo find #262
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cf/0a/f8/cf0af8322c0f3e2b914a5f3736d140ee.jpg
FalkeEins - the Luftwaffe blog: Fw 190s of I./JG 51 Heinrich Krafft - Ebay Luftwaffe photo find

All those circles are markings of the Technical officer a/c (Gruppe or Geschwader). They are not unique for a specific unit.

Me109-F4 Stab-III.JG3, flown Technical Officer Leutnant Heinrich Graf von Einsiedel - Petsamo-Luostari Airfield, Finland July, 1942

Crimea_River · Jan 11, 2021

You're right but Steph isn't talking about those. He's not talking about those. Read post 9.

CATCH 22 · Jan 11, 2021

Crimea_River said:
You're right but Steph isn't talking about those. He's not talking about those. Read post 9.

I was answering to post #10 only, saying basically the same as you: these are not the markings in question.
BTW is the marking you remember (similar to the Greek phi) like this one? Another photo of the latter.

fubar57 · Jan 11, 2021

PM sent

Wayne Little · Jan 12, 2021

Don't recall seeing any 0 marked aircraft.....interesting...

Crimea_River · Jan 12, 2021

CATCH 22 said:
That's the Greek letter phi or the Cyrillic F. Was this really a marking on a German plane?

Vague memory but this could be the one I was thinking of (Messerschmitt Bf 109F2 Stab III.JG53 Jurgen Harder named Harro WNr 8085 Russia 1941 01):

My mind may have embellished the symbol a bit.

CATCH 22 · Jan 12, 2021

Crimea_River said:
Vague memory but this could be the one I was thinking of (Messerschmitt Bf 109F2 Stab III.JG53 Jurgen Harder named Harro WNr 8085 Russia 1941 01):

View attachment 608688

My mind may have embellished the symbol a bit.

Yep, that's the same a/c I mentioned in my post #14 above.
The markings are obviously a variation of the Technical officer's (III.Gruppe) markings. There are 4 photos of this particular Me-109F-2 here.
Cheers!

Crimea_River · Jan 12, 2021

Yep, sorry. Didn't see the link.

CATCH 22 · Jan 12, 2021

Crimea_River said:
Yep, sorry. Didn't see the link.

No need to apologize - I just added information to what you said before. The moment you mentioned "an o with a vertical I", even before your sketch I imagined the letter phi and I knew I've seen something similar. As it showed it was the same a/c. Maybe it's not the one in question but still an interesting one.
Cheers!

Bf 109 or Fw 190 coded "0" JG51?

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