Bf109- eismeer

DIGS WW2 · Dec 30, 2024

I have BF 109 Eismeer Finland 1943 Forces of valour model .
What unit / squadron would this have been and any idea who the pilot is ?

Wurger · Dec 30, 2024

It is said that's the Bf 109 G-6 of the IV./JG5 "Eismeer" at Petsamo - Finnland 1943. The pilot unknown.

This is a diecast model isn't it? I haven't seen any image of the Bf 109G. I'm afraid the camo and markings may have nothing in common with the real plane.

DIGS WW2 · Dec 30, 2024

Wurger said:
It is said that's the Bf 109 G-6 of the IV./JG5 "Eismeer" at Petsamo - Finnland 1943. The pilot unknown.

This is a diecast model isn't it? I haven't seen any image of the Bf 109G. I'm afraid the camo and markings may have nothing in common with the real plane.

Yes the box has says German Bf 109G Eismeer..... Finland 1943
It is a die cast model.... tactical number 10 with various other markings present .

Wurger · Dec 30, 2024

The other markings ... could you post a pic(s) of the port side?

fubar57 · Dec 30, 2024

I've seen those polka dots somewhere

DIGS WW2 · Dec 30, 2024

Wurger said:
The other markings ... could you post a pic(s) of the port side?

DIGS WW2 · Dec 30, 2024

is there possibly any renowned pilot who belonged to Jg5 who had tactical no. 10

Wurger · Dec 30, 2024

I doubt. If it was, the Bf 109 would be one of the very popular kite to replic having the kind of markings and camouflage. Its history and the pilot would be well-known.

fubar57 · Dec 30, 2024

Just went through two Jg.5 books. Lots of winter swirls and splotches, no polka dots

Wurger · Dec 30, 2024

fubar57 said:
Just went through two Jg.5 books. Lots of winter swirls and splotches, no polka dots

You are correct Geo. Also I have to admit that the diecast models wear the fictional camos and markings often. Additionally IIRC the JG5 in the Norway started used the G-6 at the end of 1943. Earlier they used the F-4, G-2 and Fw 190A. As memory serves there are two images of the " Yellow 10" marked with the disk but without the triangle. However it is said to be the G-2 kite but not the G-6.

fubar57 · Dec 30, 2024

I have seen the polka dots before though. As you say, diecast were all over the place so may have gotten the Jg. wrong

Wurger · Dec 30, 2024

That's possible...

Here the two shots ...

the source: Jagdgeschwader 5

BTW .. the profile of the "Red 10" from the post #1 can be found in the "Augsburg Eagle The Messerschmitt Bf 109" book by William Green, the caption says the Bf 109G-6 of the IV./JG5 at Petsamo Winter 1943/44, the pages 102-103.

DIGS WW2 · Dec 30, 2024

Great...I'm new to this and your assistance and perseverance is remarkable !

fubar57 · Dec 30, 2024

....but wait....there's more. No unit though.... https://www.warbirdphotographs.com/...0-with-Unusual-Polka-Dot-Camouflage_15f-s.jpg

https://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW14/Me109G6-II.6.JG27-WrkN20790-with-Unusual-Late-War-Polka-Dot-Camouflage-Abandoned-At-War's-End-&-Captured-By-RAF-Then-Guarded-By-RAF-Airman-with-Double-Barrelled-Shotgun-At-Wunsdorf-Germany-Summer-1945_20f-s.jpg

fubar57 · Dec 30, 2024

....and when you think that you were specific enough that Google Images couldn't possibly mess it up

DIGS WW2 · Dec 31, 2024

fubar57 said:
....and when you think that you were specific enough that Google Images couldn't possibly mess it up

View attachment 811955

Thanks for all the info

Snautzer01 · Dec 31, 2024

Including wrknr.

I edited 1 to 4 with "dotted"

Wurger · Dec 31, 2024

DIGS WW2 said:
Thanks for all the info

Also a note here ... the disk at the rear of the fselage is the Gruppe emblem and indicates the IV one. Its colour depended on the Staffel of the Gruppe. The IV Gruppe considted of the 10,11,and 12 Staffel ( 10./JG5, 11./JG5 and 12./JG5). The colours for the squadrons were the white, black and yellow. So no red one at all. Additionally some time ago I found somewhere the info that the "Red 10" was the Stab plane. But again it doesn't seem to be correct because the Jagdgeschwader Stab and the Gruppe Stab used the blue colour but not the red.

And the info found via the net ...

The another thing is the IV Gruppe operated a mix of Bf 109Fs and Gs and Fw 190As. The G-2 version was the most widely used variant,but contrary to popular belief the G-4 version was also delievered to IV./JG 5 in 1943; but probably only in very small numbers. The loss records for Herdla indicate that one, W.Nr. 16 125, Stammkennzeichnen CD+WU, had an accident there on 31. August 1943. Looking at the records it is clear that IV. Gruppe also received a few G-6s in late 1943, but so far hard evidence as to when and where this happended have not been found.
The Luftflotte 5 fighter forces on 30. November 1943 were:

Stab JG 5 at Petsamo - 2 Bf 109G-2

Stab III./JG 5 at Petsamo - 2 Bf 109G-2
III./JG 5 at Petsamo and Alakurtti - 34 Bf 109G-2 and 3 Bf 109F-4

Stab IV./JG 5 at Lade - 2 Bf 109G-2
10./JG 5 at Gossen and Lade - 5 Bf 109G-6
11./JG 5 at Sola - 21 Fw 190A-2/A-3
12./JG 5 1 at Herdla - 2 Fw 190A-4

So the only squadron that used the G-6 in 1943 was the 10./JG5. It looks like neither the JG5 Stab nor the Gruppe Stabs were using the Gustav variant.

Wayne Little · Dec 31, 2024

From memory There were no Red staffel markings on IV Gruppe aircraft, would not have been Green overall either with the white winter cover, would have been Greys 74/75

Engineman · Dec 31, 2024

Wurger said:
That's possible...

Here the two shots ...

View attachment 811948
View attachment 811949
the source: Jagdgeschwader 5

BTW .. the profile of the "Red 10" from the post #1 can be found in the "Augsburg Eagle The Messerschmitt Bf 109" book by William Green, the caption says the Bf 109G-6 of the IV./JG5 at Petsamo Winter 1943/44, the pages 102-103.

Interesting photo's of an icy 14799, a Bf 109 G-2 built at WNF in Nov/Dec 1942. Pictured here it is a little weary with most cockpit glazing, head armour and wingtips removed.
The tailwheel is retracted but the main wheels are down/partly down and the prop blades visible are not bent, although it appears to be a bit battered in the flap/cooler area.
My guess is that it was damaged at some stage and is here seen in a partial recovery state that is maybe delayed by winter conditions, the intention being to dismantle it for rail transport to a repair depot.
Of note, the retracted tailwheel is noteworthy. Early G aircraft with the small F type tailwheel could have the tailwheel retraction working. It is possible that aircraft in the field were modified with the F hydraulic tailwheel jack. The G-2 aircraft manual lists the tailwheel as fixed but, the G-2 had the hydraulic piping and tail leg fittings that allowed retraction, and some photo's show a retracted tailwheel on a G-2, like this one.

Eng

Bf109- eismeer

Airman

Attachments

Siggy Master

Airman

Attachments

Siggy Master

General

Airman

Attachments

Airman

Siggy Master

General

Siggy Master

General

Siggy Master

Airman

General

General

Airman

Honourably banned

Siggy Master

Moderator

Staff Sergeant

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads