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BRITAIN may consider buying up to 150 French fighter jets for two new-generation aircraft carriers scheduled to go into service with the Royal Navy in 2013.
If the Government went ahead with the £5bn deal, it would mean cancelling existing US contracts to supply aircraft for the carriers and could cause a major crisis in Anglo-American relations.
The unexpected verbal offer to buy the Rafale Marine jets came on January 24 when Defence Secretary John Reid met his opposite number, Michele Alliot-Marie, for crucial talks in London.
It followed well publicised difficulties between Britain and America on the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) project, dogged by a row over sharing technology.
It is understood that Reid said he would consider the French offer. Even agreeing to give the proposal serious consideration could be seen as a major snub to the Americans, whose relations with the French on defence are strained.
The French offer follows America's continued refusal to agree to the transfer of advanced technology on the JSF - the jet being built in the US by Lockheed Martin with co-operation from Britain.
The Ministry of Defence has already paid the Americans £2bn for development. BAE Systems, Britain's leading defence contractor, which is a vital partner in the project, was hoping for about £14bn in development and production contracts.
The MoD declined to give details of the French offer, but defence sources in Paris confirmed that a lengthy conversation took place.
The American refusal to share technology means that if one of the JSFs needed repairs, the work would have to be carried out in America.
It would also mean British forces would not have the right codes to arm the planes if they wanted to use them for missions not approved by the Pentagon.
There is growing anger at the Americans' obduracy over technology transfer. Britain has now made it clear that without 'achieving the appropriate level of sovereignty' over the JSF, it will consider cancelling the contract.
Washington's reluctance to give up the technology to its closest military ally is fuelled by fears that Britain might allow foreign firms access to America's most precious commercial and defence secrets.
Faced by the the refusal to share technology, Lord Grayson, Minister for Defence Procurement, said: 'There has to be a Plan B. We need to make sure we have done the work needed to ensure we have an option.'
The MoD still hopes that the Americans will change their minds. Meanwhile, it is looking at its options. Giving consideration to the French offer could strengthen the MoD's negotiating hand with Washington.
The 60,000-tonne carriers planned for the Royal Navy are designed to have powerful catapults built into the deck. This means they are not restricted to the vertical take-off version of the JSF. They could fire conventional take-off JSFs as well as modified Typhoon Eurofighters.
The Rafale Marine is already in service and is designed for use on France's new carrier - identical to those being built for the Royal Navy.
The decision by Paris to buy the design of the UK carriers for their own second large carrier makes the French option more palatable.
The French jets cost about £35 million each and would be cheaper, if probably unpopular, with the forces.
Gerald Howarth, Conservative defence spokesman, said: 'This shows the danger of the American refusal to give us the technology. They could drive us into the arms of the French.'
HealzDevo said:But the problem is that the underlying causes of the problem haven't been forced to really be addressed by either party in this dispute. The committees will soon be able to block a future aircraft getting to Britain. Also I suspect you are going to get a bit of a lemon with the F-35 as we did with the Seahawk Helicopters. I suspect that behind the deal might be a fighter with equiment levels reduced to advanced Soviet Fighter level. I don't really think that everything is being told. The only way this is ever going to be solved permanently is for the US to examine its defence committees, so that it doesn't alienate its greatest allies. I could understand the wrangling if it was Lebanon or Turkey, but not Australia or Britain. After all our relationship with the US goes back to WW1 and WW2 in its present very close form.
I seen the X-35 up close and in person and was there when it first flew - The F-35 (essentially the same airframe) is far from a Lemon and may be more formidable than anything being developed by any nation at this time. Where the problem will lie is in intergrating some of those systems into a functional package and doing it when promised. That's where the manufacturer has to be held accountable. Comparing the F-35 program to the Seahawk is like comparing apples to oranges and that's a major understatement. Two different contractors two different contract, two different platforms...HealzDevo said:But the problem is that the underlying causes of the problem haven't been forced to really be addressed by either party in this dispute. The committees will soon be able to block a future aircraft getting to Britain. Also I suspect you are going to get a bit of a lemon with the F-35 as we did with the Seahawk Helicopters. I suspect that behind the deal might be a fighter with equiment levels reduced to advanced Soviet Fighter level. I don't really think that everything is being told. The only way this is ever going to be solved permanently is for the US to examine its defence committees, so that it doesn't alienate its greatest allies. I could understand the wrangling if it was Lebanon or Turkey, but not Australia or Britain. After all our relationship with the US goes back to WW1 and WW2 in its present very close form.
If so that "de-tuning" will only be found in the avionics package. Bae will build the exact airframe cominig out of Fort Worth...the lancaster kicks *** said:i think what he was saying was that the Americans will tune down the F-35's capabilities before shipping them out, so ours are inferior to the USA's.......
But understand this - BAE is building the whole airframe, they will have design authority and be able to stuff the aircraft with any avionic suite desired by the MOD. Its not a matter of just procuring something from the US - the UK will be able to stuff with aircraft with whatever they want, including avionics that could be superior than those already planned for the F-35.the lancaster kicks *** said:yes but it's those avionics and weapons downgrades thet're gonna make the difference, how would you like it if you're car, or in your case placnewas limited to just above stall speed with a crappy little engine after you'd paid the same kinda money as someone else but they get the whole lot, a nice big shiney engine and, i dunno, some fluffy dice, then imagine you'd help develop the aircraft! and i know this's got nothing to do with engines but you get my point
FLYBOYJ said:But understand this - BAE is building the whole airframe, they will have design authority and be able to stuff the aircraft with any avionic suite desired by the MOD. Its not a matter of just procuring something from the US - the UK will be able to stuff with aircraft with whatever they want, including avionics that could be superior than those already planned for the F-35.