153 daylight raids by Bomber Command in 241 days between 27 Aug 1944 & 24 April 1945 through a Northern European winter with its bad weather.
British escort fighter--what might it have been like? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BarnOwlLover
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Deleted member 68059
Staff Sergeant
- 1,056
- Dec 28, 2015
The single-seat Mosquito might have been interesting. Which I believe was initially not "quite" a Hornet.
But thats me just daydreaming, in reality it would have been a modified Spitfire, (and probably not particularly good
looking at this..>)
But thats me just daydreaming, in reality it would have been a modified Spitfire, (and probably not particularly good
looking at this..>)
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Care to share some details?
No they weren't, all they could do was put up resistance stopping total air superiority by the enemy, nothing more.
How did the British make so many Merlins considering each one had hand fitted non interchangeable parts?, same for the Spitfire, how could 20,000+ thousand be produced when each panel had to be individually rolled?, thank god for the 'mericans I say.
Shortround6
Lieutenant General
Thank god for thousands of skilled elves in Sherwood forest beating the panels out on stumps.
Later on in the war when elf labor was in short supply the Hudson car company made many of the panels on old hydraulic presses that had been used for making fenders.
These were sent over in crates marked "metal desk parts" to avoid a labor strike by the elves.
I believe that overstates the Rolls Royce built Merlin manufacturing issues. And they were coming off 3 production lines located in Derby, Crewe and Glasgow. While Derby & Crewe relied on many external subcontractors to produce components, Glasgow manufactured virtually everything on site. That would have made quality control much easier to achieve.
Then consider that when Ford of Britain was brought into the Merlin programme in May 1940 (first Ford engine appeared in June 1941), they redrew the Merlin blueprints to much finer tolerances to allow their mass production techniques to be applied. They concentrated on bomber versions and produced over 30,000 engines before production ceased in March 1946.
Ford Trafford Park Factory - Wikipedia
Henry Ford turned down the opportunity to manufacture Merlins in the USA. But Ford of Britain was a separate listed company, despite Ford USA being the major shareholder, that had a very large degree of independence from Ford USA.
Production at the various factories was:-
Derby - 32,377 from
Crewe - 26,065 from 1939
Glasgow - 23,675 from Nov 1940
These factories also went on to build Griffons alongside the Merlins later in the war.
About 12,000 of the Spitfires came from the Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory, located in the heart of the industrial Midlands and the pre-war British motor industry. There were plenty of skilled metal workers in that region able to feed that factory. And production methods were refined to incorporate unskilled labour.
Castle Bromwich: The Spitfire Factory That Shaped WWII Air Power
Discover Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory: its pivotal Spitfire and Lancaster production, wartime challenges, and legendary pilots who shaped WWII.
www.warwickshireias.org
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Deleted member 68059
Staff Sergeant
- 1,056
- Dec 28, 2015
Shortround6
Lieutenant General
the Single seat Mosquito with Merlin 61 engines at 15,000lbs sure sounds like a Hornet.
wuzak
Captain
It does appear to be the start of the Hornet project.
Meanwhile, the Mosquito FB.VI was put through tactical trials to how it performed as an intruder, a fighter/bomber, a long range fighter and an escort fighter. It was also tested as a single seater, with equipment removed to save weight.
33k in the air
Staff Sergeant
- 1,356
- Jan 31, 2021
Bomber Command did plenty of daylight bombing in 1944 and 1945.
For example, from 5/6 June to 16 August 1944, 37.5% of sorties were in daylight; from 16/17 August through 31 December 1944/1 January 1945, 37.8% of sorties were in daylight.
Mate I'm taking the piss
- Thread starter
- #94
BarnOwlLover
Staff Sergeant
That de Havilland project does seem to be the genesis of what would become the Hornet, though I'm betting that DH probably started out with this project with that not as the direct intention but rather a different aircraft similar in concept.
Oddly, (possibly in interceptor trim), the Hornet could weigh as little as 14,000 lbs, though for longer range missions 16,000-18,000 was more the norm.
Oddly, (possibly in interceptor trim), the Hornet could weigh as little as 14,000 lbs, though for longer range missions 16,000-18,000 was more the norm.
As I stated earlier
Ford USA were also involved in plans for a Rolls Royce factory in France. Initially this was to be for service and repair of engines from UK and then for a complete factory producing Merlins in France. As far as I could see the go ahead for Merlins from the Manchester Trafford Park factory was tied in with the Vulture. The plan was originally to make Vulture engines for Avro Manchesters which was on the same industrial area. The engine drawings were re drawn because of their involvement in Ford France initially and a copy of all engine drawings and an actual engine were in USA for this.I believe that overstates the Rolls Royce built Merlin manufacturing issues. And they were coming off 3 production lines located in Derby, Crewe and Glasgow. While Derby & Crewe relied on many external subcontractors to produce components, Glasgow manufactured virtually everything on site. That would have made quality control much easier to achieve.
Then consider that when Ford of Britain was brought into the Merlin programme in May 1940 (first Ford engine appeared in June 1941), they redrew the Merlin blueprints to much finer tolerances to allow their mass production techniques to be applied. They concentrated on bomber versions and produced over 30,000 engines before production ceased in March 1946.
Ford Trafford Park Factory - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Henry Ford turned down the opportunity to manufacture Merlins in the USA. But Ford of Britain was a separate listed company, despite Ford USA being the major shareholder, that had a very large degree of independence from Ford USA.
Production at the various factories was:-
Derby - 32,377 from
Crewe - 26,065 from 1939
Glasgow - 23,675 from Nov 1940
These factories also went on to build Griffons alongside the Merlins later in the war.
About 12,000 of the Spitfires came from the Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory, located in the heart of the industrial Midlands and the pre-war British motor industry. There were plenty of skilled metal workers in that region able to feed that factory. And production methods were refined to incorporate unskilled labour.
Castle Bromwich: The Spitfire Factory That Shaped WWII Air Power
Discover Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory: its pivotal Spitfire and Lancaster production, wartime challenges, and legendary pilots who shaped WWII.www.warwickshireias.org
Things change in wartime and there are no absolutes, you might be surprised to learn that more than 30 percent of Bomber Command's raids using Lancasters were flown during daylight hours. I suspect you're looking at this the wrong way. The RAF turned to night raids early in the war simply because it did not have a long-range escort fighter. The decision not to design one was made by CAS, so that changed how the RAF approached its bombing strategy. By the time the Mustang had arrived with the US 8th AF and was being used as an escort fighter the RAF needn't have flown daylight raids to distant targets because the Americans were doing that. Bomber Command's daylight raids were escorted by Spitfires and Mustangs once they arrived anyway, but these raids were not deep into Germany like the US ones. Also, round-the-clock bombing offered a strategic knockout blow of sorts, the value of which was immense and the RAF could not have done such a thing alone, so for the service, the need for a long-range escort diminished. Had there been a more pressing need, you can guarantee that one would have been developed. There was plenty of effort poured into investigating such a thing throughout the war. The experiments that the RAF did with long-range Spitfires were being conducted in 1944, by which time the P-51 was in sufficient numbers to have been making a difference, yet someone obviously thought that this work was valuable.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
'The British built 20,000 spitfires…'
that was over a 10 year period
Meanwhile, NA built 17,000 P-51's in 4 years
Ditto the Merlin - 'The British made 150,000 hand fitted Merlins'
That was over a 14 year period
Meanwhile, Packard built 55,000 production engineered Merlins with gaskets in 4 years
An interesting aside, you could always tell which plane was fitted with a RR vs a Packard Merlin - there were always drip trays under the RR Merlins
Murica! Masters of production engineering.
Pretty clueless until some Brit told them what to build eh?
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