Brits Dump F-35B STOVL for Naval F-35C

[Matt308]

Another nail in the coffin for the STOVL F-35B. Now only the US Marines are interested in this version.

UK has announced HUGE MoD cuts recently that include elimination of the F-35B in favor of the more "leggy" F-35C with greater ordnance capability. This coupled with scrapping naval carriers and landing ships is seen as a huge reduction in defensive margins for our UK allies.

DailyTech - UK to Move from F-35B (STOVL) to F-35C Fighters

I wish I had access to my Aviation Week article that provided more detailed information, but unfortunately I only have a hard copy subscription.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Well, can't say that's not too surprising.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I know the 35B test program has had some issues, the A seems to be going well, but in light of the UK's monetary problems, this doesn't surprise me.

 

[buffnut453]

I'm all in favour of this decision. The vacillation between CTOL and STOVL versions of the F-35, and the associated faffing with a "convertible" carrier design has been a collossal waste of taxpayers' money. CTOL has longer range/endurance, better payload and less complexity. These are all good things when you have limited resources and are sitting on a flat-top in the middle of the oggin (ocean for those who don't speak my version of English).

 

[Glider]

Would this be the article you are interested in?

ANALYSIS: Winners and losers of the UK defence review

 

[Matt308]

Nope. But interesting. I read the original article in my personal subscription to the old school hardcopy AvWeek. I'm sure I have an electronic version available to me, but have not taken advantage of it nor know how.

 

[Glider]

Try this one from Aviation Week
Spending Reviews Stir Fighter Market | AVIATION WEEK

 

[Matt308]

That's the one. Thanks buddy.

 

[Maximowitz]

That's nothing. In 2015 the UK will be replacing their entire armed forces with a large white flag.

 

[parsifal]

Perhaps the scrapping of the Sea Harrier was a tad premature

 

[buffnut453]

Perhaps. Scrapping the GR7s certainly is premature.

 

[CharlesBronson]

It seems they are aiming to put in service an steam catapult carrier again.

 

[Matt308]

Apparently. According to AvWeek the UK will now field 1 conventional carrier with F-35Cs.

 

[buffnut453]

I think the wording of the official announcement is unclear. There will be a transition period as the F-35 enters service and the 2 carriers migrate from being entirely helicopter-equipped to true mixed-platform multi-role vessels. In that case, one carrier will re-equip ahead of the second based on operational commitments, refit cycles etc. However, I do not believe the announcement is intended to mean that only one carrier will be fitted with catapults and F-35s because that's not a sustainable capability. The UK would lose it's afloat F-35 capability when that one vessel was in refit and the whole rationale for 2 carriers was to sustain operational effectiveness taking account of periods when the vessels need to be in port.

 

[tail end charlie]

I think the wording of the official announcement is unclear. There will be a transition period as the F-35 enters service and the 2 carriers migrate from being entirely helicopter-equipped to true mixed-platform multi-role vessels. In that case, one carrier will re-equip ahead of the second based on operational commitments, refit cycles etc. However, I do not believe the announcement is intended to mean that only one carrier will be fitted with catapults and F-35s because that's not a sustainable capability. The UK would lose it's afloat F-35 capability when that one vessel was in refit and the whole rationale for 2 carriers was to sustain operational effectiveness taking account of periods when the vessels need to be in port.

I cannot conceive any situation where these would be needed or used, one carrier wouldnt make any substantial difference to a joint force with the USA, one carrier alone could achieve very little. Perhaps as part of a European force it makes sense but then you need to get over a dozen nations to agree on a major issue when they rarely agree on a minor one.

35 aircraft is just too small and the total cost of ships and planes means they are unlikely to be risked

 

[buffnut453]

The UK's military doesn't make a substantial contribution to US military deployments today - witness the relative ease with which the US moved into areas of Afghanistan that had previously been the bailiwick of the British Army. The purpose of a carrier is force projection without the need to rely on host-nation support, and there are lots of use-cases for that type of operation - non-combatant evacuation operations, special forces (eg Sierra Leone in recent history), anti-piracy or counter-drug ops etc.

 

[tail end charlie]

The UK's military doesn't make a substantial contribution to US military deployments today - witness the relative ease with which the US moved into areas of Afghanistan that had previously been the bailiwick of the British Army. The purpose of a carrier is force projection without the need to rely on host-nation support, and there are lots of use-cases for that type of operation - non-combatant evacuation operations, special forces (eg Sierra Leone in recent history), anti-piracy or counter-drug ops etc.

That was the point I was making. Small submarines are becoming ever more capamle and available even for the tourist industry. One suicide bomber in a midget sub could sink or disable a carrier.

Force projection is a political theory that seems to forget disasters like Suez, Germany gets on just fine without projecting force anywhere.

 

[CharlesBronson]

A carrier quite useful unfortunately is not made for economical purposes, I think sometimes the people who said the aircraft carriers are white elephants is just to feel good about the fact we/they dont have any.

A video for the nostalgic britons:

Selected Original - HMS EAGLE - British Pathe

 

[BombTaxi]

Apparently. According to AvWeek the UK will now field 1 conventional carrier with F-35Cs.

I suppose the second one will be flogged to India or used as a gate guardian at Portsmouth...

 

[Glider]

I am half expecting a country to make a bid for the ones we have. They are up to date with regular upgrades and we have a bunch of recently enhanced Harriers going for a good price.