Building a full scale B-17E Flying Fortress

[PhillyB]

Hello everyone, while this is my first post on these forums I've been a historical aviation enthusiast for most of my life. All my childhood dreams have finally intersected with a burgeoning career in independent filmmaking, and as of today I am setting out to build a faithfully detailed, historically accurate, full scale B-17F for the set of an independent film.

If everyone is willing to contribute ideas, I'd like to dedicate this thread to thoughts on how best to engineer this feat. Here are the basics:

(1) The opening scene of the film is set in eastern France in August 1944, as Patton's divisions advanced towards the German border. The bomber has crashed (SPOILER!) in a patch of woods near a French farmstead.

(2) The aircraft has gone down in a patch of woods and taken considerable damage in the process. I've yet to consult with an engineer on whether this is realistic, but shearing one of the wings off in the crash (a combination of the impact and taking cannon fire where the wing meets the fuselage) would save me an entire wing worth of construction, which is significant.

(3) The base fuselage is going to be the easiest part. 74.5' in length. As I've engineered it theoretically, the circumferencial stiffeners will essentially just be pairs of circular plywood ribs running every two feet down the length of the fuselage, screwed into 4x4 pilings that will root the frame into the ground and offer it structural stability.

(4) The wings are going to be the most demanding, which is why ripping one off would halve production cost and difficulty. Not only are they massive, but recreating the airfoil is going to be a lot harder than the fuselage. And even that pales in comparison to the engines. Making engine casings and cowlings is going to be bad enough (who knows what a fabricator would charge to design the latter) but then I've got to come up with reproduction radial engines that pass muster at a quick glance. Props too. Horizontal stabilizers should be relatively easy.

(5) Fuselage features may turn out to be the most difficult. The nose turret is going to be a real pain in the ass, though it could conceivably be punched out after a crash in the woods. Getting the contoured fitting on top of the fuselage to house the cabin and top turret will be a nightmare. Ditto the vertical stabilizer, which seems easy but will probably not hold its form if done with wood, and there's no way I can pony up for aluminum.

(6) The exterior is probably the easiest part. I can use cheap sheet metal to fashion panels and use a nail gun with nails selected to best imitate rivet heads to attach them to the wooden horizontal and vertical stiffeners. Bit of OD green and a proper paint scheme and it's a wrap.

NOTES:​

Everything being shot here will be EXTERIOR. No need to worry about the inside of the aircraft looking right outside of what can be seen from the ground outside. Any interior stuff will be shot in a real plane, possibly at the Mighty 8th museum in Savannah.

Construction will take place either in central North Carolina or south central Virginia.

I deeply appreciate any and all input on this in advance!

 

[gumbyk]

Hello everyone, while this is my first post on these forums I've been a historical aviation enthusiast for most of my life. All my childhood dreams have finally intersected with a burgeoning career in independent filmmaking, and as of today I am setting out to build a faithfully detailed, historically accurate, full scale B-17E for the set of an independent film.

View attachment 529807

If everyone is willing to contribute ideas, I'd like to dedicate this thread to thoughts on how best to engineer this feat. Here are the basics:

(1) The opening scene of the film is set in eastern France in August 1944, as Patton's divisions advanced towards the German border. The bomber has crashed (SPOILER!) in a patch of woods near a French farmstead.

(2) The aircraft has gone down in a patch of woods and taken considerable damage in the process. I've yet to consult with an engineer on whether this is realistic, but shearing one of the wings off in the crash (a combination of the impact and taking cannon fire where the wing meets the fuselage) would save me an entire wing worth of construction, which is significant.

(3) The base fuselage is going to be the easiest part. 74.5' in length. As I've engineered it theoretically, the circumferencial stiffeners will essentially just be pairs of circular plywood ribs running every two feet down the length of the fuselage, screwed into 4x4 pilings that will root the frame into the ground and offer it structural stability.

(4) The wings are going to be the most demanding, which is why ripping one off would halve production cost and difficulty. Not only are they massive, but recreating the airfoil is going to be a lot harder than the fuselage. And even that pales in comparison to the engines. Making engine casings and cowlings is going to be bad enough (who knows what a fabricator would charge to design the latter) but then I've got to come up with reproduction radial engines that pass muster at a quick glance. Props too. Horizontal stabilizers should be relatively easy.

(5) Fuselage features may turn out to be the most difficult. The nose turret is going to be a real pain in the ass, though it could conceivably be punched out after a crash in the woods. Getting the contoured fitting on top of the fuselage to house the cabin and top turret will be a nightmare. Ditto the vertical stabilizer, which seems easy but will probably not hold its form if done with wood, and there's no way I can pony up for aluminum.

(6) The exterior is probably the easiest part. I can use cheap sheet metal to fashion panels and use a nail gun with nails selected to best imitate rivet heads to attach them to the wooden horizontal and vertical stiffeners. Bit of OD green and a proper paint scheme and it's a wrap.

NOTES:​

Everything being shot here will be EXTERIOR. No need to worry about the inside of the aircraft looking right outside of what can be seen from the ground outside. Any interior stuff will be shot in a real plane, possibly at the Mighty 8th museum in Savannah.

Construction will take place either in central North Carolina or south central Virginia.

I deeply appreciate any and all input on this in advance!

You could get in touch with Weta Workshops (Peter Jackson's production company), they've done Lancasters in the not too distant past.

You'll run into the problem of what is 'realistic' doesn't often translate into having the desired effect on-screen. Most accident scenes that I've been involved with aren't really that spectacular.

 

[Airframes]

Just a note - it's highly unlikely that a B-17E would still be in service at this period (unless the story line calls for the crash to have happened in early 1943, but even then, the wreck would most likely have been salvaged).
By August 1944, the aircraft would have most likely been a B-17G, or maybe, at a stretch, a weary B-17F.

 

[PhillyB]

You could get in touch with Weta Workshops (Peter Jackson's production company), they've done Lancasters in the not too distant past.

You'll run into the problem of what is 'realistic' doesn't often translate into having the desired effect on-screen. Most accident scenes that I've been involved with aren't really that spectacular.

Just a note - it's highly unlikely that a B-17E would still be in service at this period (unless the story line calls for the crash to have happened in early 1943, but even then, the wreck would most likely have been salvaged).
By August 1944, the aircraft would have most likely been a B-17G, or maybe, at a stretch, a weary B-17F.

There's zero chance I'll have the budget to get anywhere near anything Peter Jackson does. This is all going to happen out of engineering genius and sweat equity from people who want to see something like this come to fruition.

I've been convinced by folks in other forums to make this a B-17F (I want to avoid having to build that chin turret) so I've edited the original post to reflect this.

 

[Kingscoy]

If you want to build a historically correct B17...then you'll have to find out which bombgroup still operated the B17F in 1944 in order to have the correct bombgroup/ bomb squadron codes on the tailfin and fuselage. A B17G as Terry said would make the search, choice and paintjob far more easy.

 

[Airframes]

Also, the chin turret, although not that difficult to replicate, could well have been crushed up into the nose, or wiped off totally, along with the 'Plexiglass' nose cone, the latter being one of the most difficult to replicate on a limited budget.
Of course, this would depend on the scenario, and the terrain in which the 'crash' happened. It may be possible, depending on camera angles etc, to 'hide' some of the nose details, by having the front of the aircraft in scrub or bushes, piled earth etc etc.

 

[Brent]

Hello everyone, while this is my first post on these forums I've been a historical aviation enthusiast for most of my life. All my childhood dreams have finally intersected with a burgeoning career in independent filmmaking, and as of today I am setting out to build a faithfully detailed, historically accurate, full scale B-17F for the set of an independent film.

View attachment 529807

If everyone is willing to contribute ideas, I'd like to dedicate this thread to thoughts on how best to engineer this feat. Here are the basics:

(1) The opening scene of the film is set in eastern France in August 1944, as Patton's divisions advanced towards the German border. The bomber has crashed (SPOILER!) in a patch of woods near a French farmstead.

(2) The aircraft has gone down in a patch of woods and taken considerable damage in the process. I've yet to consult with an engineer on whether this is realistic, but shearing one of the wings off in the crash (a combination of the impact and taking cannon fire where the wing meets the fuselage) would save me an entire wing worth of construction, which is significant.

(3) The base fuselage is going to be the easiest part. 74.5' in length. As I've engineered it theoretically, the circumferencial stiffeners will essentially just be pairs of circular plywood ribs running every two feet down the length of the fuselage, screwed into 4x4 pilings that will root the frame into the ground and offer it structural stability.

(4) The wings are going to be the most demanding, which is why ripping one off would halve production cost and difficulty. Not only are they massive, but recreating the airfoil is going to be a lot harder than the fuselage. And even that pales in comparison to the engines. Making engine casings and cowlings is going to be bad enough (who knows what a fabricator would charge to design the latter) but then I've got to come up with reproduction radial engines that pass muster at a quick glance. Props too. Horizontal stabilizers should be relatively easy.

(5) Fuselage features may turn out to be the most difficult. The nose turret is going to be a real pain in the ass, though it could conceivably be punched out after a crash in the woods. Getting the contoured fitting on top of the fuselage to house the cabin and top turret will be a nightmare. Ditto the vertical stabilizer, which seems easy but will probably not hold its form if done with wood, and there's no way I can pony up for aluminum.

(6) The exterior is probably the easiest part. I can use cheap sheet metal to fashion panels and use a nail gun with nails selected to best imitate rivet heads to attach them to the wooden horizontal and vertical stiffeners. Bit of OD green and a proper paint scheme and it's a wrap.

NOTES:​

Everything being shot here will be EXTERIOR. No need to worry about the inside of the aircraft looking right outside of what can be seen from the ground outside. Any interior stuff will be shot in a real plane, possibly at the Mighty 8th museum in Savannah.

Construction will take place either in central North Carolina or south central Virginia.

I deeply appreciate any and all input on this in advance!

There seems to be a good supply of run out/or nonrebuildable Wright 1820 engine out there. A quick search would get you a pair for the one wing you plan on building. I am in Charlotte NC and know of several near here that could be easily obtained or possibly rented for the needed time frame. A great many of these engines were used as training aids and won't be too hard to round up. Round up one set of prop blades and some fiberglass work will make more.

 

[Buster01]

Sounds like a great project. One consideration is that no matter what you do someone will find fault with it. Movie props are only seen for a fleeting second or two, but the eagle-eyed armchair expert will go over every frame counting rivets and lightening holes. It may be a good time to look into a high-quality CGI with a super detailed visualization for the big shots and detailed units for any close-up work.

 

[CBBEhr]

Most Groups in England had a E model out back they would use to see if new pilots/Navigators knew what they were doing

I can help with drawings for wing structure if needed
Nested plywood buck framing components to attach skin
DXF files for printout or CNC cutting
For propellors try the B17 alliance in Salem Oregon http://www.b17alliance.com they have several with slight damage

Let me know
Cliff

 

[railroader]

The chin turret will not be necessary if you are reproducing an E or F model. That was only used on the G model B-17s.

 

[Skyediamonds]

Anyone here any updates from Phylly? Just curious as to where he went & if any plans came out of this.